08-22-2017, 04:01 PM
#21
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(08-22-2017, 03:44 AM)primotenore Wrote: Don't particularly care for brown lather, especially the kind that stains your towels. i.e. Meißner-Tremonia Strong 'n Scottish (cream). Great scent, awful color, stained towels. Sold. I still have their Dark Limes (puck) and while the color (grey!) is off-putting, at least it doesn't stain. 

(08-22-2017, 04:48 AM)jtmke Wrote: My only experience with brown lather has been Meibner's strong and Scottish.  I was so put off by the brown I have only used the soap/paste once.  It stained my towel.  I can't use a cream that will stain towels or clothes.  Put me in the "wrong on so many levels" column.

First time I've heard of this one. Thanks to both your post, I will probably refrain from getting this particular cream. I get paranoid about these things. 

Besides I am most interested in their pots of milk. Thanks for the heads up.

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 08-22-2017, 04:13 PM
#22
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Silly reason to miss out on a great soap, but live your life.

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 08-24-2017, 04:45 PM
#23
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I only use white products, for this very reason.  Cream coloured products = cream coloured lather, and, so forth.

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 08-26-2017, 06:07 AM
#24
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(08-24-2017, 04:45 PM)Quando Wrote: I only use white products, for this very reason.  Cream coloured products = cream coloured lather, and, so forth.

Sorry, but this just isn't true.  The vast majority of soaps are cream colored and they produce white lather.  This week I've been shaving with Mike's Orange/Cedarwood/Black Pepper, which is way darker than "cream."  It could accurately be described as brown.  But the lather is just as white as that of any white soap I've ever used.  

Very few shaving soaps actually produce brown lather.  Lavanille definitely does.  For the most part, white soap is just brown soap with titanium dioxide added to make it look white.

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 08-26-2017, 06:45 AM
#25
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Good point kingfisher. I just looked at my many Mike's pucks - and few, if any, are truly white/cream in color. Yet, they all provide a very nice white lather. There are a couple of especially dark brown pucks (pumpkin spice & coconut) that produce less than perfectly white lather (you can see brown in the proto-lather, but the color tends mostly to dissipate as you build on the face). However, most Mike's pucks are at least a gentle brown - yet result in very white lather. Stirling can also be like this - being very off-white on the puck, yet delivering a bright white lather.

I suppose if we are being picky - CRSW pucks (dry) seem to be universally white. SV 70'th (white when dry) builds to the most pearlescent, strikingly white lather I've ever produced.

However, once you review bath bar soaps, you'll find every color under the sun produces white suds ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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 08-26-2017, 07:07 AM
#26
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These three soaps are all light brown and produce white lather:

[Image: Sz3UaF3.jpg]

I don't care for the scent of Lavanille.  However, even if I did, I would not use it because I dislike the brown lather.  With so many excellent soaps available, I don't feel I'm missing out on anything by avoiding any soap for any reason whatsoever.

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 08-26-2017, 07:50 AM
#27
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Educational post.  I always thought the color was based on the natural ingredients (not artificial coloring).  If the soap was orange, I assumed there was some highly useful essential oil/ingredient (bergamot for example).

I mainly use creams - all white.  I will look again at my few soaps.

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 08-26-2017, 03:12 PM
#28
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this thread, lol.

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 08-26-2017, 04:25 PM
#29
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To reiterate. Meißner-Tremonia Strong N' Scottish is a brown cream---which produces a brown lather---which stains white towels. That was a good enough reason for me to rid myself of the product.

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 08-28-2017, 08:41 AM
#30
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(08-21-2017, 07:06 PM)TheLegalRazor Wrote: I don't like the scent or color of the soap.


This, for me. Brown soap is just disturbing.


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 08-28-2017, 10:39 PM
#31
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(08-26-2017, 04:25 PM)primotenore Wrote: To reiterate. Meißner-Tremonia Strong N' Scottish is a brown cream---which produces a brown lather---which stains white towels. That was a good enough reason for me to rid myself of the product.

Which I gladly acquired from Primo (thank you) and created the " McManly shaving ritual:  Tools:  small cast iron pot, Gillette Red Tip, Wilkinson Light Brigade blade on it's fifth use and a wire brush (just kidding ?) for whipping up fine brown lather using a copious amount of Strong N' Scottish  Brown Cream brushed on in William Wallace Braveheart warrior style over a base of ice cold water and Duke Cannon Beard Oil.  I rinse with more cold water and dry with a brown towel (no stain issue ?)  After a full strength Thayer's unscented Witch Hazel rubdown, I finish  off with a generous splash of Small Batch Shave Tonic Aftershave with Bourbon.   After this brisk start 
to the day, I'm not to be reckoned with lightly.

Seriously, I really like the M-T Strong N' Scottish; I hope the soap is as fragrant as the cream.

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 08-29-2017, 03:51 AM
#32
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(08-28-2017, 10:39 PM)Sentry Wrote:
(08-26-2017, 04:25 PM)primotenore Wrote: To reiterate. Meißner-Tremonia Strong N' Scottish is a brown cream---which produces a brown lather---which stains white towels. That was a good enough reason for me to rid myself of the product.

Which I gladly acquired from Primo (thank you) and created the " McManly shaving ritual:  Tools:  small cast iron pot, Gillette Red Tip, Wilkinson Light Brigade blade on it's fifth use and a wire brush (just kidding ?) for whipping up fine brown lather using a copious amount of Strong N' Scottish  Brown Cream brushed on in William Wallace Braveheart warrior style over a base of ice cold water and Duke Cannon Beard Oil.  I rinse with more cold water and dry with a brown towel (no stain issue ?)  After a full strength Thayer's unscented Witch Hazel rubdown, I finish  off with a generous splash of Small Batch Shave Tonic Aftershave with Bourbon.   After this brisk start 
to the day, I'm not to be reckoned with lightly.

Seriously, I really like the M-T Strong N' Scottish; I hope the soap is as fragrant as the cream.
Brilliant post.  Clap

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 09-12-2017, 06:21 AM
#33
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I don't think I missed it in here, but I'm surprised no one mentioned B&M Night Music as well. The lather color doesn't bother me but I do use a synthetic brush for the potential discoloration factor. The performance and scents for B&M are outstanding, IMO, so the color of the soap itself doesn't bother me. As someone else mentioned, if anything, I feel like it's a nice change up to the usual white color 99% of the soaps out there have.

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 09-13-2017, 09:56 AM
#34
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We've got a new soap coming out soon that we throttled back the vanilla on for similar reasons. The lather was off-white, but the soap was brown. I was told that many don't like that, so we dialed it back a bit.

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 09-13-2017, 05:51 PM
#35
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Do soaps with clay produce white lather?

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 09-13-2017, 06:06 PM
#36
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(09-13-2017, 05:51 PM)jaxstraww Wrote: Do soaps with clay produce white lather?

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Clay is something that is a bit of a generic or a catch all. I have seen lots of different soaps use things such as rhassoul (ghassoul) Moroccan clay [can be colored red to beige], china clay or kaolin [can be pure white to off white tan], French green clay, bentonite [be it sodium or calcium, it can be grey, beige, tan, brown], etc.

To better address your question, I don't think the clay matters a ton as many of the recipes don't use a lot or enough clay to change the color of the lather. Many of these topics and threads address the fact that the fragrance components influence the lather's color.

The other thing I would say is I accept the fact that some people do not like this or they think it is too much as for many years we had white soap and/or white shaving soap. Well the market has been steered by customer requests or demands for strong scented shave soaps. Thats where we have things like the brown lather. It happens because you are incorporating something like enjoying the scent of a product that is more functional like soap that you use on your face to shave with.

A bit off topic but although I love a good hard soap, doesn't have to be milled, but I have come to terms with the fact that many artisans currently have soft soaps being made. I think this is because the market has seen the demand for more shave soaps that aid in a certain post shave feel. Brown lather is from people wanting more fragrance in their shave soaps and one factor to so many current shave soaps being soft is because there is more oils, butters and fats in a formulation.

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 09-28-2017, 12:57 PM
#37
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I have read this thread several times and have finally decided to reply.  There are several replies discussing a few things all alluding to non-white soaps.  I agree, that there are two or three to my knowledge brown soaps that create brown lather that stains towels and brushes.  However, let me make the following comments.  There are currently 86 soaps and creams in my rotation.  Out of the 86, 11 or 13% are dark brown, 10 or 12% are light brown and 18 or 21% are various colors consisting of green, blue, yellow, etc.  These three categories represent 46% of my total rotation.  Almost 50% of all my soaps are non white.  All of my soaps are well known brands.  Every one of my soaps or 100% regardless of the color produce white lather and none stain anything.  Out of all my soaps there are only 3 that I wish I had not purchased.  I can only assume that the color of the soap is due to some sort of dye; but, none of them are irritating to my face. 


Not saying which soaps I know of are dark brown and stain; the manufacture includes a cautionary note in the soap’s description.  So RetroRon, it is possible that you were given that soap because  the giver experienced that problem unless they never used it.  If I decide to purchase a soap from a mail order house I always go to the manufacturers website and read the description of the soap.  If it is a soap I have not used before I may end up not liking it.  But I know it will not stain.

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 09-28-2017, 06:12 PM
#38
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The base color of a soap depends on the oils used, and is then modified by the fragrance and/or colorants that might be added.  Generally speaking, the oils used for shaving soap like tallow, coconut oil, palm kernel oil, duck fat, avocado/kokum/shea/etc are going to produce an off-white soap.  A soap heavy on white oils like coconut will probably be lighter in color than one with a lot of unrefined shea butter, for example.  Or, you can add titanium dioxide to a cream-colored soap to make it white.  My Sensitive Skin soap is light yellow because of the bright orange sea buckthorn oil I add to it.  Soaps that turn brown contain fragrances that have some vanillin content in them - the darker the brown, the more vanillin.  Some of these fragrances might cause brown-tinged lather if the vanilla content is high enough, but most will make white lather.  The brown discoloration starts in the outer layer of soap that is in contact with the air; it eventually will progress until the entire soap is brown to the middle.  That is why sometimes you cut open or grate a brown soap and find some lighter colored areas inside - it doesn't mean the soap is bad, it just means that it hasn't completely turned brown yet.  If the actual dark brown soap comes in contact with a white towel or washcloth it might stain them.

Honey, sugar, and beer will also cause browning because sugars tend to caramelize as everything is reacting with the lye.  The clay used for slip in shaving soap is generally bentonite (grayish green) or kaolin (white) which are used in very very tiny amounts (like < 1%) and so aren't going to add color to a soap.  There are colored clays used to tint soap pink, brick red, orange, yellow, black, brown and greenish - but they tend to be subdued colors.  Activated charcoal, popular for coloring soaps black, can stain the lather grey if you use too much.  Soaps that are bright blue, violet, green, yellow, pink, etc are probably colored with oxides and ultramarine mineral colorants, not dyes, but the label should tell you what they've used.

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 09-28-2017, 06:18 PM
#39
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Very informative Michelle, as always.  Thank you.

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 09-28-2017, 06:33 PM
#40
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You're welcome Ricardo!  Speaking of base oils and how they influence color, once I did a trial using African palm oil, the yellow kind that used for cooking...talk about bright orange soap!  It lathered yellow...not what I was looking for!  But most oils, when soaped, are more or less white or off-white.

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