12-28-2017, 08:21 AM
#1
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I ended up a "new" brush for Christmas, and after picking at the odd glue-like material, I think this is epoxy, but I am not sure. I have seen similar brushes with similar staining and hoped that there might be some insight here on how I might proceed.

[Image: 39323197922_4dc8fdc5a1.jpg] [Image: 39323197522_40a35f45a5.jpg]
[Image: 24488614307_7fe9741f14.jpg]

The options that I see involve a Dremel or other source of abrasive, sandpaper-like stripping approaches. I do wonder if there is a heat technique that would be effective, but worry that the necessary heat would have other effects that are not desired.

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 12-28-2017, 08:28 AM
#2
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I recommend something like an automotive polishing compound.  Take light, easy circular strokes.  Just a thought.

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 12-28-2017, 10:51 AM
#3
  • MaxP
  • Senior Member
  • Madison, WI
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Looks like a real "challenge."

I suggest gentle scraping with a utility knife or similar blade, then polishing. It's difficult to tell from the photos what you're dealing with.

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 12-28-2017, 11:36 AM
#4
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Looks like a rough glue job after cracking; slow and careful work with a mild abrasive (Ed's suggestion sounds sound) and or fine grit sandpaper should clean it up - however it will take quite a lot of time. A Dremel or similar will speed it up, at the risk of taking material off the handle and collar.

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 01-01-2018, 10:30 AM
#5
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(12-28-2017, 08:21 AM)rev579 Wrote: I ended up a "new" brush for Christmas, and after picking at the odd glue-like material, I think this is epoxy, but I am not sure. I have seen similar brushes with similar staining and hoped that there might be some insight here on how I might proceed.

[Image: 39323197922_4dc8fdc5a1.jpg] [Image: 39323197522_40a35f45a5.jpg]
[Image: 24488614307_7fe9741f14.jpg]

The options that I see involve a Dremel or other source of abrasive, sandpaper-like stripping approaches. I do wonder if there is a heat technique that would be effective, but worry that the necessary heat would have other effects that are not desired.

The others have made good suggestions.  What I would do is get some 220, 400 and 600-grit wet-and-dry automotive sandpaper (available at most hardware stores.)  Start by wetting the handle and lightly sanding with 600 (the finest) paper to see if it removes the stains.  (It probably won't, but slow and careful's the rule of the day.)  If, as I suspect, not much happens, go up to 400 (keeping the handle wet all the time), then 220.  

Once you have the stains/glue/whatever removed, you'll want to re-sand (wet!) with progressively finer grits.  Then polish with a medium cut automotive polish like Maguier's 105, finishing off with a fine-cut compound like 205.)

If none of that works, feel free to drop me a PM and we'll see what else might be done.

Good luck!

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 01-02-2018, 03:42 PM
#6
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(01-01-2018, 10:30 AM)BSWoodturning Wrote:
(12-28-2017, 08:21 AM)rev579 Wrote: I ended up a "new" brush for Christmas, and after picking at the odd glue-like material, I think this is epoxy, but I am not sure. I have seen similar brushes with similar staining and hoped that there might be some insight here on how I might proceed.

[Image: 39323197922_4dc8fdc5a1.jpg] [Image: 39323197522_40a35f45a5.jpg]
[Image: 24488614307_7fe9741f14.jpg]

The options that I see involve a Dremel or other source of abrasive, sandpaper-like stripping approaches. I do wonder if there is a heat technique that would be effective, but worry that the necessary heat would have other effects that are not desired.

The others have made good suggestions.  What I would do is get some 220, 400 and 600-grit wet-and-dry automotive sandpaper (available at most hardware stores.)  Start by wetting the handle and lightly sanding with 600 (the finest) paper to see if it removes the stains.  (It probably won't, but slow and careful's the rule of the day.)  If, as I suspect, not much happens, go up to 400 (keeping the handle wet all the time), then 220.  

Once you have the stains/glue/whatever removed, you'll want to re-sand (wet!) with progressively finer grits.  Then polish with a medium cut automotive polish like Maguier's 105, finishing off with a fine-cut compound like 205.)

If none of that works, feel free to drop me a PM and we'll see what else might be done.

Good luck!

Thank you. I would prefer to have a better go than earlier today.
I was prepping another at lunch today, trying to steam the knot free. It didn't go so well. I doubt I'll go the steam route again.
Before:
[Image: 38036846145_039734e8ef.jpg]

After:
[Image: 39460438281_c386f26848.jpg]
[Image: 39460438551_24b06877bd.jpg]

Now I have a Webble Wobble

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 01-02-2018, 04:25 PM
#7
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Did you try to steam the knot out of the originally posted brush, the barberstyle one? The glue does look like aged old fashioned "Hide Glue". This kind of glue was used a lot in the past and is still used a lot in luthier work. Hide glue starts to melt about 150-160F, and can have this reddish brown color. I doubt it is epoxy glue.
BTW, I always advise against the "steam" method to remove knots.....you see some of the results on the second example. Others may differ, but I believe that cutting the hairs off and then drilling the old plug out is a safer method.

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 01-02-2018, 05:41 PM
#8
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(01-02-2018, 04:25 PM)Rudy Vey Wrote: Did you try to steam the knot out of the originally posted brush, the barberstyle one? The glue does look like aged old fashioned "Hide Glue". This kind of glue was used a lot in the past and is still used a lot in luthier work. Hide glue starts to melt about 150-160F, and can have this reddish brown color. I doubt it is epoxy glue.
BTW, I always advise against the "steam" method to remove knots.....you see some of the results on the second example. Others may differ, but I believe that cutting the hairs off and then drilling the old plug out is a safer method.

Thanks Rudy. I did not try to steam the Barberstyle one. It seems I might have steamed the wrong one... But then again, we don't know our limits until we meet failure. $6 failure is something I can live with, but I remain comfortable by exercising my limits from watching and learning as others share their successes and failures. Today was simply my contribution to the community.

Cut and Drill. It's settled. Would you be inclined to leave the ferrule connected to the handle?

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 01-02-2018, 06:04 PM
#9
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(01-02-2018, 05:41 PM)rev579 Wrote:
(01-02-2018, 04:25 PM)Rudy Vey Wrote: Did you try to steam the knot out of the originally posted brush, the barberstyle one? The glue does look like aged old fashioned "Hide Glue". This kind of glue was used a lot in the past and is still used a lot in luthier work. Hide glue starts to melt about 150-160F, and can have this reddish brown color. I doubt it is epoxy glue.
BTW, I always advise against the "steam" method to remove knots.....you see some of the results on the second example. Others may differ, but I believe that cutting the hairs off and then drilling the old plug out is a safer method.

Thanks Rudy. I did not try to steam the Barberstyle one. It seems I might have steamed the wrong one... But then again, we don't know our limits until we meet failure. $6 failure is something I can live with, but I remain comfortable by exercising my limits from watching and learning as others share their successes and failures. Today was simply my contribution to the community.

Cut and Drill. It's settled. Would you be inclined to leave the ferrule connected to the handle?

If it stays on, yes, otherwise, glue it on again.

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 01-03-2018, 06:23 AM
#10
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(01-02-2018, 06:04 PM)Rudy Vey Wrote:
(01-02-2018, 05:41 PM)rev579 Wrote:
(01-02-2018, 04:25 PM)Rudy Vey Wrote: Did you try to steam the knot out of the originally posted brush, the barberstyle one? The glue does look like aged old fashioned "Hide Glue". This kind of glue was used a lot in the past and is still used a lot in luthier work. Hide glue starts to melt about 150-160F, and can have this reddish brown color. I doubt it is epoxy glue.
BTW, I always advise against the "steam" method to remove knots.....you see some of the results on the second example. Others may differ, but I believe that cutting the hairs off and then drilling the old plug out is a safer method.

Thanks Rudy. I did not try to steam the Barberstyle one. It seems I might have steamed the wrong one... But then again, we don't know our limits until we meet failure. $6 failure is something I can live with, but I remain comfortable by exercising my limits from watching and learning as others share their successes and failures. Today was simply my contribution to the community.

Cut and Drill. It's settled. Would you be inclined to leave the ferrule connected to the handle?

If it stays on, yes, otherwise, glue it on again.

I agree with Rudy about the "Cut & Drill" method.  I would only add that it's safer to start drilling with a smaller bit (say 1/4" - 3/8") and work your way up until you're just below the socket diameter, then scrape the remainder off with an X-acto knife or, if you're feeling brave, a Dremel with a sanding sleeve.

And to your point:  Nothing succeeds like failure.  It can hurt, but it does make a more lasting impression.  (I still have remains of a vintage EverReady I bought years ago as a reminder.)

I hope things go well!  ("We are beggars, hoc est verum.")

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 01-03-2018, 02:16 PM
#11
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(01-03-2018, 06:23 AM)BSWoodturning Wrote:
(01-02-2018, 06:04 PM)Rudy Vey Wrote:
(01-02-2018, 05:41 PM)rev579 Wrote: Thanks Rudy. I did not try to steam the Barberstyle one. It seems I might have steamed the wrong one... But then again, we don't know our limits until we meet failure. $6 failure is something I can live with, but I remain comfortable by exercising my limits from watching and learning as others share their successes and failures. Today was simply my contribution to the community.

Cut and Drill. It's settled. Would you be inclined to leave the ferrule connected to the handle?

If it stays on, yes, otherwise, glue it on again.

I agree with Rudy about the "Cut & Drill" method.  I would only add that it's safer to start drilling with a smaller bit (say 1/4" - 3/8") and work your way up until you're just below the socket diameter, then scrape the remainder off with an X-acto knife or, if you're feeling brave, a Dremel with a sanding sleeve.

And to your point:  Nothing succeeds like failure.  It can hurt, but it does make a more lasting impression.  (I still have remains of a vintage EverReady I bought years ago as a reminder.)

I hope things go well!  ("We are beggars, hoc est verum.")

Starting with a small bit is what I always do, I use a very small bit, like a 1/16" to drill into the residual plug. I do this to make sure there is no "surprise", as I have observed several brushes in my restoration career that had coins under the knot: this is not good if you get a catch with  larger drill bit. Happened once only, but it was bad - but lesson learned. Please, do not use coins to shim knots or add weight. I use cork slices for shimming, and if weight needs to be added, I use fishing weights (small lead beads) I encase in epoxy.

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 01-04-2018, 01:54 PM
#12
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Take Lemons and make Lemonade. Initially the 24mm Silvertip from TGN that was meant for either of my Rubberset brushes, a 49-3 or the 200-2 in the OP. I also thought about putting it in the 89, however it has now found a new home.

[Image: 24637570857_c60a8ee341.jpg]
[Image: 39475055212_f8525d3611.jpg]
[Image: 24637571227_8efc6a93e9.jpg]

I had planned on putting an all black, B&W or all white knot in it, but when it arrived, the white bottom was more like smoke-stained, off-white. My guess is it really spent time in a Barber Shop. As it turns out, I am fond of this color combination.
I will keep my eye out for another Black on White ER 250T or H40.

In theory it looks like I could have gone with a knot that was a little bigger, but just don't know for sure. I have let it cure for 24hrs and will give it a go in the morning.

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 01-04-2018, 02:31 PM
#13
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Looks like a very nice serving of Lemonade!

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 01-04-2018, 02:37 PM
#14
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Looks great.  The knot looks like a perfect fit.  Nice work!!

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 01-04-2018, 08:17 PM
#15
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And while on the topic of learning from others, Rudy threw me a curve on the coin. So, with that fresh in my mind, the coins are only for scale.
[Image: 39480093622_f76b170b18_z.jpg]

16 / 43.5 / 65 / 107 / Ivory Base(38mm)
or
16 / 43.5 / 27 / 70.5 / Brown Cap(27mm)

The handle for the brush is in pretty rough condition. I looked into using a a button from a button buck, but the guys around here wanted far too much and said they needed to use the current handle as a donor piece for the thread. A big, but polite, "no thank you". I'll probably take the ferrule to Lowe's and Home Depot to see if I can find anything that will match the threading there. The Ferrule, with the right base could make for a great traveler. It could also take the shape of a "vase" handle.
I am also open to suggestions.

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