02-15-2018, 12:12 PM
#1
User Info
I saw these pics on FB yesterday and thought I'd ask here since there's a huge Paradigm following and I know Andy @ Paradigm Shaveware is very active... Is this really the prototype?

[Image: 27752041_10155085852316697_1093083824755...e=5B101E7B]
[Image: 27907975_10155085627836697_4710285548483...e=5B1F38D1]

3 119
Reply
 02-15-2018, 05:01 PM
#2
  • eengler
  • Administrator
  • South Dakota, USA
User Info
 02-15-2018, 05:54 PM
#3
User Info
Looks awesome. With a creative twist! Can’t wait to get one in my hands

12 261
Reply
 02-15-2018, 06:03 PM
#4
User Info
And folks are good with a $400 razor, right?  I mean, it's totally worth it, right?  I have to believe it's totally worth it.

18 294
Reply
 02-15-2018, 06:44 PM
#5
User Info
(02-15-2018, 06:03 PM)BrickHud Wrote: And folks are good with a $400 razor, right?  I mean, it's totally worth it, right?  I have to believe it's totally worth it.

IMHO it depends on what you can afford. I see listings on the BST for brushes in that price range.

12 261
Reply
 02-15-2018, 07:01 PM
#6
  • MaxP
  • Senior Member
  • Des Moines, Iowa
User Info
Four bills for a brush makes perfect sense, but for a razor...?   LOL

62 1,735
Reply
 02-15-2018, 08:58 PM
#7
  • pbrmhl
  • Senior Member
  • Seattle
User Info
I've spent a s***ton of money on razors over the last four years or so. As I recall, $230 was the most I spent on one (coincidentally, the Paradigm 17-4, a purchase I don't regret in the least). Like each and every one of you, I've got more disposable income than some, and less than others. I just can't break the $230+ barrier. And I have a Wolfman WR1 and WRH open comb at .74mm blade gap that I purchased directly from James several years ago for much less than $230. I'd love to own the Paradigm Ti v1, but I can only get it from someone who paid $395 for it, and I'm not ready to spend that kind of money for a razor. And I hope I never will be ready for that. No knock against anyone else--I'm just trying to figure out my own commitment.

10 541
Reply
 02-16-2018, 01:37 AM
#8
User Info
$400 for an SE is a lot of money and way beyond what I can afford. I'm sure the shaves are worth it and hopefully Andy, will come out with an all SS, cheaper one, soon after the launch.

0 447
Reply
 02-16-2018, 09:37 AM
#9
User Info
(02-16-2018, 01:37 AM)kyproset Wrote: $400 for an SE is a lot of money and way beyond what I can afford. I'm sure the shaves are worth it and hopefully Andy, will come out with an all SS, cheaper one, soon after the launch.

This design would be way too heavy in SS, but other SS designs will be along.

[img]https://imgur.com/gallery/FnBa4[img]

0 142
Reply
 02-16-2018, 10:08 AM
#10
User Info
What something is "worth" is so subjective. In some cases it is unknown, even in terms of the dollar figure. When a painting goes to auction, the market value is murky until after the auction.

A Toyota will get you to the supermarket as surely as a BMW. Yet there are undeniable differences in styling, amenities, and performance. Even a wealthy individual might yet prefer the Toyota, while one of more modest means might prefer the BMW. It is a matter entirely of resource availability and personal preference.

Speaking generally, it is unwise to divert scarce resources to a BMW. But the way of the miser society finds unattractive as well. There is no one size fits all answer.

Getting back to razors. There is no call to obscure the issues behind generalities concerning automobiles or art.

The profitability of a razor to the maker is dependent primarily upon cost of goods sold and what happens downstream in the distribution chain. That is to say, it is most profitable to machine in-house and sell directly to the public. A Paradigm Titanium razor is machined by a very talented guy that I work closely with, but he is a contractor. While I am beginning direct sales, razors will also be distributed through Bullgoose and Gifts and Care. Historically, all Paradigm razors were wholesaled to Bullgoose. There are three mouths to feed in this distribution model.

Turning now to examine costs. Titanium is expensive, about triple the cost of stainless. It is also notoriously difficult and slow to machine.

I do make a fair profit on a titanium razor, but by no means lavish. I'd like to think I have some skill in designing razors. That may be worth something to some people.

0 142
Reply
 02-16-2018, 11:42 AM
#11
User Info
(02-16-2018, 10:08 AM)Paradigm Shaveware Wrote: What something is "worth" is so subjective. In some cases it is unknown, even in terms of the dollar figure. When a painting goes to auction, the market value is murky until after the auction.

A Toyota will get you to the supermarket as surely as a BMW. Yet there are undeniable differences in styling, amenities, and performance. Even a wealthy individual might yet prefer the Toyota, while one of more modest means might prefer the BMW. It is a matter entirely of resource availability and personal preference.

Speaking generally, it is unwise to divert scarce resources to a BMW. But the way of the miser society finds unattractive as well. There is no one size fits all answer.

Getting back to razors. There is no call to obscure the issues behind generalities concerning automobiles or art.

The profitability of a razor to the maker is dependent primarily upon cost of goods sold and what happens downstream in the distribution chain. That is to say, it is most profitable to machine in-house and sell directly to the public. A Paradigm Titanium razor is machined by a very talented guy that I work closely with, but he is a contractor. While I am beginning direct sales, razors will also be distributed through Bullgoose and Gifts and Care. Historically, all Paradigm razors were wholesaled to Bullgoose. There are three mouths to feed in this distribution model.

Turning now to examine costs. Titanium is expensive, about triple the cost of stainless. It is also notoriously difficult and slow to machine.

I do make a fair profit on a titanium razor, but by no means lavish. I'd like to think I have some skill in designing razors. That may be worth something to some people.


Well said. You can’t ask for much more transparency. Yes there are less expensive razors but there are also more expensive razors made out of SS and not even titanium.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

0 101
Reply
 02-16-2018, 11:48 AM
#12
User Info
(02-16-2018, 11:42 AM)vinnychampionmd Wrote:
(02-16-2018, 10:08 AM)Paradigm Shaveware Wrote: What something is "worth" is so subjective. In some cases it is unknown, even in terms of the dollar figure. When a painting goes to auction, the market value is murky until after the auction.

A Toyota will get you to the supermarket as surely as a BMW. Yet there are undeniable differences in styling, amenities, and performance. Even a wealthy individual might yet prefer the Toyota, while one of more modest means might prefer the BMW. It is a matter entirely of resource availability and personal preference.

Speaking generally, it is unwise to divert scarce resources to a BMW. But the way of the miser society finds unattractive as well. There is no one size fits all answer.

Getting back to razors. There is no call to obscure the issues behind generalities concerning automobiles or art.

The profitability of a razor to the maker is dependent primarily upon cost of goods sold and what happens downstream in the distribution chain. That is to say, it is most profitable to machine in-house and sell directly to the public. A Paradigm Titanium razor is machined by a very talented guy that I work closely with, but he is a contractor. While I am beginning direct sales, razors will also be distributed through Bullgoose and Gifts and Care. Historically, all Paradigm razors were wholesaled to Bullgoose. There are three mouths to feed in this distribution model.

Turning now to examine costs. Titanium is expensive, about triple the cost of stainless. It is also notoriously difficult and slow to machine.

I do make a fair profit on a titanium razor, but by no means lavish. I'd like to think I have some skill in designing razors. That may be worth something to some people.


Well said. You can’t ask for much more transparency. Yes there are less expensive razors but there are also more expensive razors made out of SS and not even titanium.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks, Vinny. Sorry if I got snarky. It's just one of those questions there's no really good answer to.

0 142
Reply
 02-16-2018, 12:01 PM
#13
User Info
As far as art is concerned, there is a lot of speculation and people will spend $$$$$'s not just to get to look at a painting, but also with the prospect of making a profit a few years down the road. I'm more familiar with the violn market which is also a speculative one which invites wealthy individuals as well as banks and big corporations to park their money on Stradivaris, therefore less are available to be used by the players who really need them, so prices go up. In the 70's one could buy a great Strad for about 100,000. Now you are looking at 10 million for the same one.
In the case of razors, I think the utility value ie, how it performs, is the prime determinant, followed by materials used. I think, had the 17-4 been an average shaver, Paradigm would not now be enjoying the popularity and the sales they are. Surely Andy did some serious thought to come out with a DE which in my opinion is a true gamechanger, out of the ordinary and I'm really glad I bought one. Because of this, a genious has to be rewarded accordingly.
I hope subsequent releases will be as successful as the 17-4 and the TI II and I'll make my best to get them if I can.

0 447
Reply
 02-16-2018, 12:18 PM
#14
User Info
(02-16-2018, 10:08 AM)Paradigm Shaveware Wrote: What something is "worth" is so subjective. In some cases it is unknown, even in terms of the dollar figure. When a painting goes to auction, the market value is murky until after the auction.

A Toyota will get you to the supermarket as surely as a BMW. Yet there are undeniable differences in styling, amenities, and performance. Even a wealthy individual might yet prefer the Toyota, while one of more modest means might prefer the BMW. It is a matter entirely of resource availability and personal preference.

Speaking generally, it is unwise to divert scarce resources to a BMW. But the way of the miser society finds unattractive as well. There is no one size fits all answer.

Getting back to razors. There is no call to obscure the issues behind generalities concerning automobiles or art.

The profitability of a razor to the maker is dependent primarily upon cost of goods sold and what happens downstream in the distribution chain. That is to say, it is most profitable to machine in-house and sell directly to the public. A Paradigm Titanium razor is machined by a very talented guy that I work closely with, but he is a contractor. While I am beginning direct sales, razors will also be distributed through Bullgoose and Gifts and Care. Historically, all Paradigm razors were wholesaled to Bullgoose. There are three mouths to feed in this distribution model.

Turning now to examine costs. Titanium is expensive, about triple the cost of stainless. It is also notoriously difficult and slow to machine.

I do make a fair profit on a titanium razor, but by no means lavish. I'd like to think I have some skill in designing razors. That may be worth something to some people.

I traded in a BMW for a Chevy Pickup( more practical). Andy if your creation of a smooth and efficient razor wasn’t so great and unique we wouldn’t be having this discussion. Many razors in less expensive material are in the same price range but none that I own or have owned shaves like my Paradigm. Keep up the great ideas and designs.

12 261
Reply
 02-16-2018, 01:20 PM
#15
User Info
Thank you all! Seriously. 

Let's try again on images. https://imgur.com/gallery/FnBa4

0 142
Reply
 02-16-2018, 01:21 PM
#16
User Info
(02-16-2018, 12:01 PM)kyproset Wrote: As far as art is concerned, there is a lot of speculation and people will spend $$$$$'s not just to get to look at a painting, but also with the prospect of making a profit a few years down the road. I'm more familiar with the violn market which is also a speculative one which invites wealthy individuals as well as banks and big corporations to park their money on Stradivaris, therefore less are available to be used by the players who really need them, so prices go up. In the 70's one could buy a great Strad for about 100,000. Now you are looking at 10 million for the same one.
In the case of razors, I think the utility value ie, how it performs, is the prime determinant, followed by materials used. I think, had the 17-4 been an average shaver, Paradigm would not now be enjoying the popularity and the sales they are. Surely Andy did some serious thought to come out with a DE which in my opinion is a true gamechanger, out of the ordinary and I'm really glad I bought one. Because of this, a genious has to be rewarded accordingly.
I hope subsequent releases will be as successful as the 17-4 and the TI II and I'll make my best to get them if I can.

Kypros, you play the violin?

0 142
Reply
 02-16-2018, 01:46 PM
#17
User Info
(02-15-2018, 06:03 PM)BrickHud Wrote: And folks are good with a $400 razor, right?  I mean, it's totally worth it, right?  I have to believe it's totally worth it.

I asked this question to get a discussion going, and here's my take:

Totally worth it.  Of course it's worth it.  There is no other tool I use for as much time in a week as a razor.  That includes my car.  And it's a tool I interact with on an intimate basis.  So I'm going to look for bargains?  Heck no.  And I like a bargain.  I even like bargain razors.  But if you want to build me a great razor, you're darn tootin' I'll pay.

We are living in THE (not "a", but "THE") golden age of razors.  Part of what makes it such a golden age is the variety, including variety across the cost spectrum.  And what's fostering that variety on which this Golden Age depends, is entrepreneurship from companies like Paradigm.  Name me another razor manufacturer that had the stones to build a razor out of 17-4 stainless steel.  We have bronze razors, copper razors, steel razors, zinc alloy razors, brass razors, aluminum razors.  We have razors that are gold plated.  We have manufacturers rediscovering designs that lay dormant for decades (Gem blades?  Schick injectors?).  And we have modern CAD/CAM designs combined with modern manufacturing techniques.

I hope manufacturers like Paradigm continue to push the envelope of design and manufacturing.  If they produce things only collectors will want to buy, I'll pass.  But I'm happy to own a couple Paradigm razors and will be eagerly anticipating its SE Artist Club razor.

18 294
Reply
 02-16-2018, 01:50 PM
#18
User Info
Andy, a lot of us don’t know the ins and outs of designing a product from the ground up based on an idea in our heads and then having that idea turned into something “real”.

We do know there has to be costs associated with producing these items but while you are prototyping razors, you are more than likely NOT making money. I would ASSume you are spending it by the bucketload though. For that, I completely understand where the final cost would come into play. You have created several stellar, as in game changer, razors and you came out of nowhere swinging for the fences. You are also the most transparent and open manufacturers I have seen on these forums.

22 268
Reply
 02-16-2018, 02:40 PM
#19
User Info
(02-16-2018, 01:50 PM)FloridaCreekIndian Wrote: Andy, a lot of us don’t know the ins and outs of designing a product from the ground up based on an idea in our heads and then having that idea turned into something “real”.

We do know there has to be costs associated with producing these items but while you are prototyping razors, you are more than likely NOT making money. I would ASSume you are spending it by the bucketload though. For that, I completely understand where the final cost would come into play. You have created several stellar, as in game changer, razors and you came out of nowhere swinging for the fences. You are also the most transparent and open manufacturers I have seen on these forums.

The really tough part was at the beginning. Now, there's more capital, high demand, a brand out there. We are buying another CNC mill. The bottleneck in production should be considerably reduced.

So again, sincere thanks to all of you. It's you guys that have put Paradigm on the map. It's a great pleasure making razors for you. I think you are going to like the AC a lot. It shaves like mad and doesn't rip your face up. :-)

0 142
Reply
 02-16-2018, 02:48 PM
#20
User Info
(02-16-2018, 01:21 PM)Paradigm Shaveware Wrote:
(02-16-2018, 12:01 PM)kyproset Wrote: As far as art is concerned, there is a lot of speculation and people will spend $$$$$'s not just to get to look at a painting, but also with the prospect of making a profit a few years down the road. I'm more familiar with the violn market which is also a speculative one which invites wealthy individuals as well as banks and big corporations to park their money on Stradivaris, therefore less are available to be used by the players who really need them, so prices go up. In the 70's one could buy a great Strad for about 100,000. Now you are looking at 10 million for the same one.
In the case of razors, I think the utility value ie, how it performs, is the prime determinant, followed by materials used. I think, had the 17-4 been an average shaver, Paradigm would not now be enjoying the popularity and the sales they are. Surely Andy did some serious thought to come out with a DE which in my opinion is a true gamechanger, out of the ordinary and I'm really glad I bought one. Because of this, a genious has to be rewarded accordingly.
I hope subsequent releases will be as successful as the 17-4 and the TI II and I'll make my best to get them if I can.

Kypros, you play the violin?
Nowadays I make a living with it. Unfortunately the company I was working for went bust.

0 447
Reply
Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)