05-07-2018, 05:10 PM
#21
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(04-30-2018, 04:13 PM)asiliski Wrote: In my soap making there really is no difference.  Cocoa and kokum butters for example have very similar fatty acid makups to tallow with more stearic acid.

Exactly.  Soap is just saponified fat.  Any fat will work.  Fats with similar molecular make ups will produce similar soaps.  There is a lot more to the quality of a shaving soap than the type of fat being saponified.  Variation you experience among soaps is far more likely to result from things other than the type of fat used.

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 05-07-2018, 06:13 PM
#22
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(05-07-2018, 05:10 PM)BrickHud Wrote:
(04-30-2018, 04:13 PM)asiliski Wrote: In my soap making there really is no difference.  Cocoa and kokum butters for example have very similar fatty acid makups to tallow with more stearic acid.

Exactly.  Soap is just saponified fat.  Any fat will work.  Fats with similar molecular make ups will produce similar soaps.  There is a lot more to the quality of a shaving soap than the type of fat being saponified.  Variation you experience among soaps is far more likely to result from things other than the type of fat used.

Not entirely true. My wife makes soap and it's common knowledge that tallow and lard make the creamiest densest lather in soap. Figure if its great for regular soap then its great in shave soap.

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 05-07-2018, 06:54 PM
#23
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Non-tallow soaps that I have had and enjoyed include Dr. Jon's, I Coloniali, and CRSW Oliva.  I Coloniali was one of my favorites, despite the lack of tallow, and I also enjoy the other two.  

However, soaps currently in my den are all tallow:  MW, Mike's Natural, Soapy Science, Stirling.  


I am not averse to non-tallow soaps, but I find, in general, that I gravitate toward tallow soaps even without thinking about it.

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 05-07-2018, 07:44 PM
#24
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(05-07-2018, 02:37 PM)asiliski Wrote:
(05-07-2018, 02:11 PM)TheLegalRazor Wrote: My current soaps are all tallow, with three exceptions.

LPL Apricot
Sampson's All Natural
CRSW Oliva 

All the soaps I keep perform well.  However, I don't think tallow preferences are marketing induced delusions.  It's a subjective issue, and for those who generally prefer tallow, myself included, the perceived differences are real and valid. 

Additionally, even someone who prefers tallow may find some vegan soaps which offer excellent performance.  Despite my preference for tallow, the three vegan soaps I currently use perform better than some tallow soaps I've tried.  A lot depends on the formulation of a particular soap, and not just of the tallow versus vegan aspect.

Is is possible to retract my statement above and go with this one?  Well said sir.  I cannot tell the difference between tallow and vegan.  Is there something I am missing in the comparison?

You are not missing anything.  If they work equally well for you, that's fine.  All that matters is what works well for you, and not someone else.  You'll find a lot of guys who will tell you that they get good results with both tallow and vegan soaps.

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 05-08-2018, 02:14 PM
#25
  • chazt
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In my limited experience with vegan soaps, my favorite in terms of performance is (was?) Tim’s. The quality of the lather and the post-shave are (were?) equal to any tallow based soap I’ve tried.

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 05-08-2018, 05:43 PM
#26
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(05-07-2018, 06:13 PM)twister Wrote:
(05-07-2018, 05:10 PM)BrickHud Wrote:
(04-30-2018, 04:13 PM)asiliski Wrote: In my soap making there really is no difference.  Cocoa and kokum butters for example have very similar fatty acid makups to tallow with more stearic acid.

Exactly.  Soap is just saponified fat.  Any fat will work.  Fats with similar molecular make ups will produce similar soaps.  There is a lot more to the quality of a shaving soap than the type of fat being saponified.  Variation you experience among soaps is far more likely to result from things other than the type of fat used.

Not entirely true. My wife makes soap and it's common knowledge that tallow and lard make the creamiest densest lather in soap. Figure if its great for regular soap then its great in shave soap.

Tallow is 50% palmitic/stearic acid and 36% oleic acid.  Cocoa butter is 60% stearic/palmitic acid and 5% oleic acid.  Kokum is the same.  stearic/palmitic acids are what make that nice dense, creamy lather.  oleic acid is the primary fatty acid in olive oil and inhibits lather making it denser and creamier.  Chemically speaking these three fats are very similar with the vegan fats having more of the good stuff.  Other butters such as mango, illipe, and shea have lower stearic/oleic acid ratios.  

So my question is what is in the tallow that does not saponify which could make it creamier?

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 05-09-2018, 06:12 AM
#27
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Cholesterol in tallow isn’t saponifiable. However, the cholesterol level (in tallow) is ~ 0.1%.

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