06-07-2018, 05:24 AM
#1
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I purchased a Q Shave a few weeks ago and was impressed with the shave. Having never owned a clone, I thought,
if the "Clone" is this good, then the Futur would be better. Right? Well....the "Clone " and Futur are equal to me.
The Q Shave handle is 1 mm smaller in circumference. I seem to detect an increase in blade chatter/vibration in
the Futur. That could be the blade, I'm using the supplied Merkur blade and the Q Shave blade in the Q razor.
Months or years, may prove one better than the other, but not now. I must wait for the future to decide.
On value...Q Shave wins...... Number_one

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 06-07-2018, 05:44 AM
#2
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I've used both the Ming Shi 2000 clone and the Merkur Futur.  Like you, I found the clone to be a faithful replica of the Merkur, and it shaved as well.  But I ended up PIF'ing the Ming Shi and keeping the Merkur, just because I preferred having the original in my collection.  For me, part of the concept of "value" includes having "the real thing."  The Futur has a lot of complex internal parts, and I don't know how the Chinese clones will hold up.  Maybe as well; maybe better; maybe not so well.  I'm also not crazy as a philosophical matter with the Chinese ripping off designs. I decided to pay a little more for the original, but I can't fault a different decision.

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 06-07-2018, 07:07 AM
#3
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I don't know anything about the clone, but I do enjoy using my Futur.  It was my second safety razor after the Merkur Vision.  I enjoyed both of them so much that on a whim I created my username with the name Merkur in it.  I have to say I still enjoy the shaves they provide all these years later.  The thing I could never do is use those Merkur blades... They are awful, and feel like you're scraping your face with a piece of corrugated roofing tin. So, if you managed to get a good shave with the Merkur blade, imagine how much better it will be when using a proper blade?!?

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 06-07-2018, 09:48 AM
#4
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(06-07-2018, 05:44 AM)BrickHud Wrote: I've used both the Ming Shi 2000 clone and the Merkur Futur.  Like you, I found the clone to be a faithful replica of the Merkur, and it shaved as well.  But I ended up PIF'ing the Ming Shi and keeping the Merkur, just because I preferred having the original in my collection.  For me, part of the concept of "value" includes having "the real thing."  The Futur has a lot of complex internal parts, and I don't know how the Chinese clones will hold up.  Maybe as well; maybe better; maybe not so well.  I'm also not crazy as a philosophical matter with the Chinese ripping off designs. I decided to pay a little more for the original, but I can't fault a different decision.

They didnt, "rip off" the design.  The patent expired and they started making something similar.  Thats how the world works.

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 06-07-2018, 10:12 AM
#5
  • Harvey
  • Senior Member
  • North Hills CA
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(06-07-2018, 09:48 AM)Badgerstate Wrote:
(06-07-2018, 05:44 AM)BrickHud Wrote: I've used both the Ming Shi 2000 clone and the Merkur Futur.  Like you, I found the clone to be a faithful replica of the Merkur, and it shaved as well.  But I ended up PIF'ing the Ming Shi and keeping the Merkur, just because I preferred having the original in my collection.  For me, part of the concept of "value" includes having "the real thing."  The Futur has a lot of complex internal parts, and I don't know how the Chinese clones will hold up.  Maybe as well; maybe better; maybe not so well.  I'm also not crazy as a philosophical matter with the Chinese ripping off designs. I decided to pay a little more for the original, but I can't fault a different decision.

They didnt, "rip off" the design.  The patent expired and they started making something similar.  Thats how the world works.

They just did the same thing with the PARTHENON adjustable DE razor...$49.00 with free shipping,no tax and 50 Feather blades...really quite well made and smooth adjustments and shaves with no issues...quite amazing...took only one week to get...blades even come in a cool metal box and they included a small cleaning brush.

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 06-07-2018, 12:50 PM
#6
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(06-07-2018, 10:12 AM)Harvey Wrote:
(06-07-2018, 09:48 AM)Badgerstate Wrote:
(06-07-2018, 05:44 AM)BrickHud Wrote: I've used both the Ming Shi 2000 clone and the Merkur Futur.  Like you, I found the clone to be a faithful replica of the Merkur, and it shaved as well.  But I ended up PIF'ing the Ming Shi and keeping the Merkur, just because I preferred having the original in my collection.  For me, part of the concept of "value" includes having "the real thing."  The Futur has a lot of complex internal parts, and I don't know how the Chinese clones will hold up.  Maybe as well; maybe better; maybe not so well.  I'm also not crazy as a philosophical matter with the Chinese ripping off designs. I decided to pay a little more for the original, but I can't fault a different decision.

They didnt, "rip off" the design.  The patent expired and they started making something similar.  Thats how the world works.

They just did the same thing with the PARTHENON adjustable DE razor...$49.00 with free shipping,no tax and 50 Feather blades...really quite well made and smooth adjustments and shaves with no issues...quite amazing...took only one week to get...blades even come in a cool metal box and they included a small cleaning brush.
Thats party why I'm so big one these Chinese razors and brushes. You get so much value for the money. I'd put any of my Weishi razors or Yaqi brushes up against other gear that costs 10x or even 20x more and be confident they could give me the same result.

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 06-08-2018, 03:58 AM
#7
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(06-07-2018, 12:50 PM)Badgerstate Wrote:
(06-07-2018, 10:12 AM)Harvey Wrote:
(06-07-2018, 09:48 AM)Badgerstate Wrote: They didnt, "rip off" the design.  The patent expired and they started making something similar.  Thats how the world works.

They just did the same thing with the PARTHENON adjustable DE razor...$49.00 with free shipping,no tax and 50 Feather blades...really quite well made and smooth adjustments and shaves with no issues...quite amazing...took only one week to get...blades even come in a cool metal box and they included a small cleaning brush.
Thats party why I'm so big one these Chinese razors and brushes.  You get so much value for the money.  I'd put any of my Weishi razors or Yaqi brushes up against other gear that costs 10x or even 20x more and be confident they could give me the same result.

It has crossed my mind on a few occasions, that all the badger hair that is sold to all the brush makers......all come from China.
So, why do you/we not think that some Chinese brush maker may not get the best of this hair ?
I believe that if it's good it's good. They are not counterfeiting the razor, broken no international law.

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 06-16-2018, 11:02 AM
#8
  • SCOV
  • Senior Member
  • Minnesota
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Definition: Clones are organisms that are exact genetic copies.  Identical Twins are an example.

While the use of the word "clone" is used with a broader meaning today, the term still implies a very close copy or replica of the original.  

Clones can be a "rip-off of someone's design, can be a legal copy of someone's designs, and normally lower cost (generic medicine comes to mind).  High quality is assured with generic drugs, some clones are high quality and some "make a $ low quality".  While this may be a double standard, I have no issues with generic meds, I do have an issue with a clone of a current product (including expired or no patents) and advertised as clone.  I have no issue with someone making an "improved Gillette toggle razor".  

Chinese brushes are not clones and do seem to offer some good values.

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 06-16-2018, 02:25 PM
#9
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(06-16-2018, 11:02 AM)SCOV Wrote: Definition: Clones are organisms that are exact genetic copies.  Identical Twins are an example.

While the use of the word "clone" is used with a broader meaning today, the term still implies a very close copy or replica of the original.  

Clones can be a "rip-off of someone's design, can be a legal copy of someone's designs, and normally lower cost (generic medicine comes to mind).  High quality is assured with generic drugs, some clones are high quality and some "make a $ low quality".  While this may be a double standard, I have no issues with generic meds, I do have an issue with a clone of a current product (including expired or no patents) and advertised as clone.  I have no issue with someone making an "improved Gillette toggle razor".  

Chinese brushes are not clones and do seem to offer some good values.

The comments on Chinese brushes was in relation to quality=value . Futur= Q-Shave. In this instance the Q is a solid value.
On Generic meds., I agree with you. Let me add, on the majority of "clone,generic,fakes" I AM STRONGLY AGAINST !
Example: Ordered a pair of American Optical sunglasses from Amazon, I received a pair of fake Ray-Bans.If you don't
know AO's you might think Ray-Bans are better, you might not know how to identify the fakes. Q-Shave calls it a "clone"
they are open in all advertising as to what it is, no attempt is made otherwise. Smile

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 06-16-2018, 03:39 PM
#10
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(06-07-2018, 09:48 AM)Badgerstate Wrote:
(06-07-2018, 05:44 AM)BrickHud Wrote: I've used both the Ming Shi 2000 clone and the Merkur Futur.  Like you, I found the clone to be a faithful replica of the Merkur, and it shaved as well.  But I ended up PIF'ing the Ming Shi and keeping the Merkur, just because I preferred having the original in my collection.  For me, part of the concept of "value" includes having "the real thing."  The Futur has a lot of complex internal parts, and I don't know how the Chinese clones will hold up.  Maybe as well; maybe better; maybe not so well.  I'm also not crazy as a philosophical matter with the Chinese ripping off designs. I decided to pay a little more for the original, but I can't fault a different decision.

They didnt, "rip off" the design.  The patent expired and they started making something similar.  Thats how the world works.

Your point about patent expiring is well taken and that may truly be the case here. I don't know for sure. But there are plenty of chinese businesses that are not above "ripping off" others designs. Take a look at some of the cars made by chinese automakers. The designs are copied from other automakers.

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 06-16-2018, 03:46 PM
#11
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(06-07-2018, 12:50 PM)Badgerstate Wrote:
(06-07-2018, 10:12 AM)Harvey Wrote:
(06-07-2018, 09:48 AM)Badgerstate Wrote: They didnt, "rip off" the design.  The patent expired and they started making something similar.  Thats how the world works.

They just did the same thing with the PARTHENON adjustable DE razor...$49.00 with free shipping,no tax and 50 Feather blades...really quite well made and smooth adjustments and shaves with no issues...quite amazing...took only one week to get...blades even come in a cool metal box and they included a small cleaning brush.
Thats party why I'm so big one these Chinese razors and brushes.  You get so much value for the money.  I'd put any of my Weishi razors or Yaqi brushes up against other gear that costs 10x or even 20x more and be confident they could give me the same result.

Its true that chinese razors are much cheaper than their more recognized counterparts. But I do not buy them because of the reason why they are cheaper. China has much lower environmental and safety standards for resource extracting and manufacturing, which has resulted in massive amounts of pollution of air, water and land. In addition, workers do not get paid as well as or have labour rights like us. They are exploited and in some cases, border on modern slavery. It is after all still a communist country. So, I ask that you do your own research in these matter, form your opinions and decide for yourself if these products are truly a great value.

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 06-16-2018, 04:22 PM
#12
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(06-16-2018, 03:46 PM)meshave Wrote:
(06-07-2018, 12:50 PM)Badgerstate Wrote:
(06-07-2018, 10:12 AM)Harvey Wrote: They just did the same thing with the PARTHENON adjustable DE razor...$49.00 with free shipping,no tax and 50 Feather blades...really quite well made and smooth adjustments and shaves with no issues...quite amazing...took only one week to get...blades even come in a cool metal box and they included a small cleaning brush.
Thats party why I'm so big one these Chinese razors and brushes.  You get so much value for the money.  I'd put any of my Weishi razors or Yaqi brushes up against other gear that costs 10x or even 20x more and be confident they could give me the same result.

Its true that chinese razors are much cheaper than their more recognized counterparts. But I do not buy them because of the reason why they are cheaper. China has much lower environmental and safety standards for resource extracting and manufacturing, which has resulted in massive amounts of pollution of air, water and land. In addition, workers do not get paid as well as or have labour rights like us. They are exploited and in some cases, border on modern slavery. It is after all still a communist country. So, I ask that you do your own research in these matter, form your opinions and decide for yourself if these products are truly a great value.
There's are a couple of YouTube videos of the Baily razor production facilities if people want to see what they actually look like. Spoiler alert, not much like Communist labor camps.

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 06-16-2018, 08:16 PM
#13
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(06-16-2018, 04:22 PM)jmudrick Wrote:
(06-16-2018, 03:46 PM)meshave Wrote:
(06-07-2018, 12:50 PM)Badgerstate Wrote: Thats party why I'm so big one these Chinese razors and brushes.  You get so much value for the money.  I'd put any of my Weishi razors or Yaqi brushes up against other gear that costs 10x or even 20x more and be confident they could give me the same result.

Its true that chinese razors are much cheaper than their more recognized counterparts. But I do not buy them because of the reason why they are cheaper. China has much lower environmental and safety standards for resource extracting and manufacturing, which has resulted in massive amounts of pollution of air, water and land. In addition, workers do not get paid as well as or have labour rights like us. They are exploited and in some cases, border on modern slavery. It is after all still a communist country. So, I ask that you do your own research in these matter, form your opinions and decide for yourself if these products are truly a great value.
There's are a couple of YouTube videos of the Baily razor production facilities if people want to see what they actually look like. Spoiler alert, not much like Communist labor camps.
I don't think this is the forum to debate the topic. I just thought that the topic was relevant given that pricing was discussed here. Everyone can form their own opinions. I will not write any more about this topic.

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 06-16-2018, 10:50 PM
#14
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(06-16-2018, 04:22 PM)jmudrick Wrote:
(06-16-2018, 03:46 PM)meshave Wrote:
(06-07-2018, 12:50 PM)Badgerstate Wrote: Thats party why I'm so big one these Chinese razors and brushes.  You get so much value for the money.  I'd put any of my Weishi razors or Yaqi brushes up against other gear that costs 10x or even 20x more and be confident they could give me the same result.

Its true that chinese razors are much cheaper than their more recognized counterparts. But I do not buy them because of the reason why they are cheaper. China has much lower environmental and safety standards for resource extracting and manufacturing, which has resulted in massive amounts of pollution of air, water and land. In addition, workers do not get paid as well as or have labour rights like us. They are exploited and in some cases, border on modern slavery. It is after all still a communist country. So, I ask that you do your own research in these matter, form your opinions and decide for yourself if these products are truly a great value.
There's are a couple of YouTube videos of the Baily razor production facilities if people want to see what they actually look like. Spoiler alert, not much like Communist labor camps.

No big surprise there.  Ive seen some pictures and video from Yaqi and it was much the same.

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 06-17-2018, 08:33 AM
#15
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(06-16-2018, 03:46 PM)meshave Wrote:
(06-07-2018, 12:50 PM)Badgerstate Wrote:
(06-07-2018, 10:12 AM)Harvey Wrote: They just did the same thing with the PARTHENON adjustable DE razor...$49.00 with free shipping,no tax and 50 Feather blades...really quite well made and smooth adjustments and shaves with no issues...quite amazing...took only one week to get...blades even come in a cool metal box and they included a small cleaning brush.
Thats party why I'm so big one these Chinese razors and brushes.  You get so much value for the money.  I'd put any of my Weishi razors or Yaqi brushes up against other gear that costs 10x or even 20x more and be confident they could give me the same result.

Its true that chinese razors are much cheaper than their more recognized counterparts. But I do not buy them because of the reason why they are cheaper. China has much lower environmental and safety standards for resource extracting and manufacturing, which has resulted in massive amounts of pollution of air, water and land. In addition, workers do not get paid as well as or have labour rights like us. They are exploited and in some cases, border on modern slavery. It is after all still a communist country. So, I ask that you do your own research in these matter, form your opinions and decide for yourself if these products are truly a great value.
Wouldn't that be true for any item made there including the iPhone. Also if we look at the environmental part, isn't it a known fact that most electronic giants are notoriously designing new products every year and killing their flagship babies very few years for new sales and profits ? I think to single out a country for it is not very justified. Leading us and European (first world) Companies are partners and equally guilty of the environmental sabotage. China is merely executing the design prints outsourced to them !

Sent from my MI MAX using Tapatalk

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 06-17-2018, 08:52 AM
#16
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(06-17-2018, 08:33 AM)luv2shave Wrote:
(06-16-2018, 03:46 PM)meshave Wrote:
(06-07-2018, 12:50 PM)Badgerstate Wrote: Thats party why I'm so big one these Chinese razors and brushes.  You get so much value for the money.  I'd put any of my Weishi razors or Yaqi brushes up against other gear that costs 10x or even 20x more and be confident they could give me the same result.

Its true that chinese razors are much cheaper than their more recognized counterparts. But I do not buy them because of the reason why they are cheaper. China has much lower environmental and safety standards for resource extracting and manufacturing, which has resulted in massive amounts of pollution of air, water and land. In addition, workers do not get paid as well as or have labour rights like us. They are exploited and in some cases, border on modern slavery. It is after all still a communist country. So, I ask that you do your own research in these matter, form your opinions and decide for yourself if these products are truly a great value.
Wouldn't that be true for any item made there including the iPhone. Also if we look at the environmental part, isn't it a known fact that most electronic giants are notoriously designing new products every year and killing their flagship babies very few years for new sales and profits ? I think to single out a country for it is not very justified. Leading us and European (first world) Companies are partners and equally  guilty of the environmental sabotage. China is merely executing the design prints outsourced to them !

Sent from my MI MAX using Tapatalk

IMO, most people have a very distorted, outdated view of China.  Its not perfect but things have been steadily improving there.

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 06-17-2018, 09:35 AM
#17
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Gentlemen, let's please keep the discussion related to the subject of the thread.  

Thank you.

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