09-25-2018, 01:23 PM
#1
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Probably newbie questions, but here goes:

Are efficient razors always aggressive, and mild razors never efficient?  

Is there a DE razor(s) that can do a BBS on one wtg pass?

How does 'blade feel' relate to the aggressive vs mild and efficient vs ?? spectra?

Thanks.

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 09-25-2018, 01:54 PM
#2
  • Puma
  • Active Member
  • Central Jersey
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There are some mild razors that are efficient if you can figure out the perfect angle. The Oristo, Black Mamba, and Mamba come to mind. However, that window is pretty small so you will have to practice and get precise with the angle and be able to find it anywhere on your face and neck. As for your second question: No way will you ever get BBS everywhere with one WTG pass. It might happen in one or two places on your face like the cheek, but everyone has a heavier growth somewhere. Neck, chin, and stache will always require more than one pass.

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 09-25-2018, 02:00 PM
#3
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In my view, "efficiency" always describes a relationship between two things, not an attribute that something (or someone) can possess in isolation.

A car is efficient if it get's good mileage for the gas consumed.

A basketball player is efficient if he scores a lot of points for the time played.

A worker is efficient if she gets a lot of work done for the number of hours worked.

So a razor isn't efficient just because it's sharp or has a lot of blade feel or gives a good shave.

A razor is efficient if it gives you something for the amount of something else.  I use it to mean "gives a good shave for the degree of comfort and ease of use."  The most efficient razor would be one that gives me a reliably BBS shave and is incredibly comfy and easy to use.

A razor might give me very close shaves but leave my face feeling raw.  That's not efficient.  An "aggressive" feeling razor may or may not be efficient, depending on how well it shaves.  A very mild razor might be efficient if it gives just a reasonably close shave but is incredibly smooth, comfortable, and easy to use.

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 09-25-2018, 02:12 PM
#4
  • Mel S Meles
  • On the edge, ouch
  • 44.4899° south of the North Pole
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(09-25-2018, 01:23 PM)fzman1956 Wrote: Are efficient razors always aggressive, and mild razors never efficient?  

No; and no.

In the words of the master:  

Quote:   I make cars to go.  Not to stop.
       -- Ettore Bugatti

(While Bugatti was alive and in charge of design, the brake pedal in Bugatti automobiles was primarily decorative, not especially functional.)

An aggressive razor is one that shaves fast.  It does not necessarily shave more closely, or require fewer passes to shave closely, than a mild razor does; but, because an aggressive razor requires fewer user adjustments per pass, it does not demand the (acquired) skill and attention to detail that a mild razor does to get a close shave.  Therefore, the shave can be completed more quickly and you can be on your way.  But in terms of how many passes are required to get any desired degree of closeness, an experienced shaver (with this mild tool and giving attention to detail) can match any shave, pass-for-pass and result-for-result, that he could achieve with that aggressive tool, the latter requiring perhaps less time expended per pass.

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 09-25-2018, 02:42 PM
#5
  • SCOV
  • Senior Member
  • Minnesota
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My definitions:

Efficient:  2 pass close shave
Not Efficient: 3 pass and touchup for same close shave

Aggressive: Extra care to avoid nicks/rash/etc.  Face feels the need for aftershave (burning or rough feel).  
Mild: Can shave quickly without concentrating for average shave.  Low risk of nicks. No burning feel or irritation post shave.  

Efficient and mild requires excellent technique.   Aggressive and Not Efficient requires very little except a few post shave products.

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 09-25-2018, 02:50 PM
#6
  • chazt
  • Senior Member
  • Queens, NY
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The most efficient razor in my regular rotation is a Schick type I. It gives me a highly acceptable one pass DFS when pressed for time. The mildest razor I rotate, a prewar Tech, gives a decent DFS in 2 passes, and a long lasting all over BBS shave in 3 passes. Red Tips have more comparative blade feel while still remaining quite mild; BBS in 2+ passes. Higher up the "aggressiveness scale" are my standard gap Asylum Evolutions, yet I'm still 2 passes to BBS. The Turbo plate gives me just a wee bit too much blade feel for my comfort, prompting a lighter touch which yields a less efficient shave.

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 09-25-2018, 04:54 PM
#7
  • pbrmhl
  • Senior Member
  • Seattle
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I don’t think “mild” and “efficient” are opposites but, in my hand, it’s very difficult to get a close shave with a mild razor. I know others think it’s all about technique, but I’ve been at this a long time and “blade-forward” razors simply perform better for me because, well, the blade is forward, and not hidden. There are some razors I call mild (because they’re not blade-forward) that deliver efficiently (e.g., 17-4, Karve with an F plate, Blackland Dart, Asylum Evolution Model T), but others seem to think they’re “aggressive,” to varying degrees. I’ve tried many “aggressive” vintage razors (e.g., Slim at 9, Old Types in both thin- and thick-caps, News in long- and short-combs, Red Tip, etc.), but in vintage only the Le Coq cage comb works for me.

I’m often an outlier, so I encourage you to listen to others. In my case, however, listening to others cost me a lot of less-than-optimal shaves (and a few bucks). Have fun with your journey, as I have!

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 09-25-2018, 05:33 PM
#8
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Mild and efficient can go hand in hand with the right tools such as the Feather AS-D2 razor coupled with a Feather or Polsilver blade, and the right angles/techniques.

If you are patient and can act quickly, AS-D2s can be had from 95-110 in outstanding like new condition on the BST part of this and other forums. It is an absolutely fantastic shaver!

Vr

Matt

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 09-25-2018, 05:43 PM
#9
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The Dart is what prompted these questions....  it shaved me super-close but because of the wrong blade-angle--too much on the cap not the guard, created a few nicks and weepers....  I think that going from the AS-D2 right to the Dart was too much of a contrast, even with the Feather blade in the D2.  

I like how the Rockwell 6S feels on my face with  Polsilver and plate #4.... I love the way the Dart made my face so silky smooth.

Is there a best of both worlds?

Does it make sense to use a different razor for each (or at least some) passes, e.g., a milder razor/blade combo for the 3rd pass ATG?

Does it make sense to use alternate razors, mild vs efficient on alternate days?

Thanks for all the comments so far--you guys are awesome

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 09-25-2018, 06:21 PM
#10
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(09-25-2018, 05:33 PM)Ols67 Wrote: Mild and efficient can go hand in hand with the right tools such as the Feather AS-D2 razor coupled with a Feather or Polsilver blade, and the right angles/techniques.

If you are patient and can act quickly, AS-D2s can be had from 95-110 in outstanding like new condition on the BST part of this and other forums.  It is an absolutely fantastic shaver!

Vr

Matt

Matt,  thanks for the reply.  I already have an AS-D2.  I am pondering whether to keep it or sell it.  It's an awesome razor, but I think it is a bit too mild for me (newbie claim-which I may recant at any time). I binged a bit --and too much too soon. Rockwell 6S, AS-D2, Merkur 34C, iKon Shavemaster 101 and spare X3 head, Birth-year Gillette Blue tip, Dart,and a cheap Qshave Merkur Futur adjustable knock-off.

I am pretty sure I can return the AS-D2 and the Dart for a full refund if they do not work out for me.  The 6S, iKon and 34C are not returnable.  It's not about the money, per-se, but about picking 'the one' or 'the two'.

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 09-25-2018, 06:41 PM
#11
  • chazt
  • Senior Member
  • Queens, NY
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'the one' or 'the two'.


24

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 09-25-2018, 07:11 PM
#12
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I agree with the analogy from @BrickHud. I define a razor being efficient as meaning a razor that makes quick work of slicing through my whiskers in the progressions (SAS to DFS to BBS and everything in between).

Generally, the least amount of passes to get to BBS is a very efficient razor in my book. Conversely, a more efficient razor usually is more aggressive (requires good technique to minimize irritation).

A mild razor is well, mild in the sense that the shave is comfortable, difficult to nick yourself, and not as close cutting as a more aggressive razor.

Personally, I like a good balance of efficiency and smoothness for my daily shaver. Mild razors don't make my daily rotation because they require too many passes and touch ups to get the desired shave. I love a two-pass efficient shave with touch ups for a close BBS and no irritation.

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 09-25-2018, 07:29 PM
#13
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The question has been now answered, yet people will continue to use ithe term interchangably with aggresiveness ... anoying.

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 09-25-2018, 07:44 PM
#14
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(09-25-2018, 07:29 PM)lloydrm Wrote: The question has been now answered, yet people will continue to use ithe term interchangably with aggresiveness ... anoying.

The answer to me is there is no simple answer. Are "Mild" and "efficient" opposites? The answer depends on who you ask. If you ask me, my answer would be generally yes but it depends on the razor, one's face, technique, etc.

Some people get great efficient shaves from a mild razor like the Feather AS-D2 in a couple passes. Sadly, my tough whiskers are a challenge for mild razors and the efficiency goes way down. So in this context, yes, they are opposites in my own experience.

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 09-25-2018, 08:22 PM
#15
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I didn’t intend to make it personal on you nor anyone. Certainly what might be efficient to one person doesn’t mean it will be equally efficient to someone else.

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 09-26-2018, 01:58 AM
#16
  • ischiapp
  • Senior Member
  • Ischia, Naples, Italy
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When I started shaving, some decades ago, I had my grandpa DE (Gillette Rocket Flare Tip).
Over years, I've tried all kind of shaver.
As wetshaving aficionado, I've learned to use straight razor too.
A free blade is the most efficient way to shave in the right hands, or can be the most aggressive.

(09-25-2018, 01:23 PM)fzman1956 Wrote: Are efficient razors always aggressive, and mild razors never efficient?
No.
With right technique a good razor is effective but comfortable.
This is efficiency. Gain a target with low effort.
Because the blade just touch the skin, and cut hair with no pressure.

(09-25-2018, 01:23 PM)fzman1956 Wrote: Is there a DE razor(s) that can do a BBS on one wtg pass?
No.
Hair physiology does not allow this.
Each hair grow with an angle, very low to about 45°.
To have an actual BBS, you need to stretch skin and cut in different path to hit different face of the hair.
That brings to real and durable BBS.

(09-25-2018, 01:23 PM)fzman1956 Wrote: How does 'blade feel' relate to the aggressive vs mild and efficient vs ?? spectra?
Blade feel depends on the tool.
DE blades are sooooo thin and flexible that all is about geometry of the razor head.
BTW, with a nice edge on a good tool and the right technique, a blade feel should be like a light breeze.
Best safety razors cut the hair with almost no blade feel. And technique gives BBS in 3 pass classic shave.

It's all in our hands.  Wink

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 09-26-2018, 03:35 AM
#17
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The Oneblade Genesis V2 gives a pretty close shave in a WTG and an ATG pass...perhaps the closest two pass shave I have had with zero issues/irritation. The pivoting head makes it extremely mild and efficient at the same time!

I highly recommend it if you are looking for mild and efficient at the same time!

Vr

Matt

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 09-26-2018, 04:26 AM
#18
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(09-25-2018, 07:29 PM)lloydrm Wrote: The question has been now answered, yet people will continue to use ithe term interchangably with aggresiveness ... anoying.
Why is it "annoying"? Just ignore posts that don't jibe with your opinion. Even this one.

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