11-08-2018, 10:03 PM
#61
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(11-08-2018, 09:25 AM)Paladin Shaving Wrote:
(11-07-2018, 08:34 PM)DudeAbides Wrote: On topic. Right out of the box, first bloom after a cleaning. Am I in the ballpark?

That form of the Rooney Stubby 2XL has always intrigued me. I don't recall ever seeing it on the Vintage Blades site, which was a very good source of information about the Rooney Heritage line. Someone posted on B&B in March 2014 that the Owner of Vintage Blades had said his last Rooney order was delivered in Spring of 2013, and that he didn't know if/when he would get more. In any case, there seemed to me to have been a significant transition in handle production by mid-2014.

Below are photos of what I think of as a classic Rooney Stubby 2XL.

[Image: PB083311c12ws_zpsm2js1fjy.jpg]

[Image: PB083312c12ws_zpsuxn6seoj.jpg]


Beautiful 2-band Ken to say the least as well as your other Rooney's. I'm starting to realize that you guys use the handle as one telltale variable when deciphering Rooney knot characteristics. If I'm understanding correctly the brush I posted, which is actually a 3XL, is most likely or most certainly made after 2014 and has no similarities to the face feel and visual looks of the Rooney Heritage 3-band or better yet Heritage 3-band Super Badger. It's just plain old Super Badger 3-band. Jeez! It's all so confusing, anyways thanks for killing my dream…just kidding . I appreciate your knowledge and your willingness to share it with the group.

~Royce

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 11-09-2018, 12:45 AM
#62
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Keeping Rooney's brushes they made and when they came out can be a feat in and of itself.

Looking for churchillafemme's posts can show you a wide range of brushes. This following photo is from his thread here.

[Image: 0uA4LNg.jpg]


The first three are the original Stubby line. They were produced in 3-band Super Silvertip (also known as 3-band Heritage), 2-band Super Silvertip (2-band Heritage), and Finest.
The first on the right is the XXL and was when the original Stubby line was active. I only saw 3 XXLs on a sale at Classic Shaving one time, and that was only for 3-band Heritage.

The second generation is the XL line as seen in the 4th from the left. I don't recall ever seeing the XL in Finest, and John (churchillafemme) mentions in his post that the XL with two rings apparently was custom ordered. Stock of Finest was becoming limited to what I recall when 2-band Heritage came out replacing 3-band Heritage, and with that the gel tip craze started and took some of the brunt away from limited Finest stock.

The third generation is when Rooney started back with the Heritage handle brushes, but now started filling the brushes with a less densely packed amount of hair. I had a Beehive 2 here, and still have an Emillion2, and I can personally vouch that the more current Emillion 2 is no where near the terms of density of a 3-band Heritage Emillion 2 I used to have. Not the same hair either, but it's not bad. It's just not the legendary stuff of old. The XL line (they actually returned to calling it just the Stubby now) is what stood out to the most for me when I saw Rooney was putting out brushes again, and it's hard to explain. I had a Stubby 1 2-band heritage for awhile, and it had more of a refined ring, with a touch of sharpness. It was nothing bad. The best way I can think of calling it is a ridge ring. I have a Stubby 1XL and 2XL and lookwise and feelwise the XL line has always reminded me of an approximation between the ring on the Style 1 and the original Stubby and a combination of the 2. I no longer have a Stubby to compare with unfortunately, and even know the Stubby doesn't have as much difference in how it looks vs the Style 1. I'm inclined to trust my gut feeling of how it was. The newer Stubby line has a ring below the two rings that just isn't present in the original XL line. Sorry I can't find the right words for it, but for me having used both a Stubby and Stubby XLs, the difference between the Stubby that was brought back to the market has a clear difference to the original XL.

Your brush DudeAbides, is what I consider the newer, third generation, but the picture of what you posted does look nice!

I hope the information is helpful.

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 11-09-2018, 06:16 AM
#63
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In following the conversation doesn’t seem like any of these will be the heritage knots. Any strongly worth considering? Thanks for posting!

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 11-09-2018, 06:42 AM
#64
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(11-09-2018, 06:16 AM)Kevinklu Wrote: In following the conversation doesn’t seem like any of these will be the heritage knots. Any strongly worth considering? Thanks for posting!

I think the horn-handled brush probably had/has an old knot. That's based on an assumption that the knot was set contemporaneously with other closely similar horn-handed Rooney brushes. Whether it has a so-called "heritage knot" depends first on resolving what that means in present context.

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 11-09-2018, 01:12 PM
#65
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(11-09-2018, 06:16 AM)Kevinklu Wrote: In following the conversation doesn’t seem like any of these will be the heritage knots. Any strongly worth considering? Thanks for posting!

I wouldn't give a raving recommendation of buy, buy, buy for any of the Heritage brushes he has for sale. All of them are well past the point of what they cost back in the day, and having experienced the knots of Rooney from years previous. I bought some for the nostalgia of the handles, but not at these prices. There's too many excellent brushes out there at a cheaper price than these. If you really wanted a Rooney, pick up that Rooney S11 the seller has. It's a Style 1 Size 1 in faux ivory, and the silvertip variety. I found the block lettering Rooney's for those to be slightly better, but only slightly. That brush I feel is a good deal if you really want a Rooney and don't mind the small size.

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 11-09-2018, 01:27 PM
#66
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(11-09-2018, 01:12 PM)kooshman7 Wrote:
(11-09-2018, 06:16 AM)Kevinklu Wrote: In following the conversation doesn’t seem like any of these will be the heritage knots. Any strongly worth considering? Thanks for posting!

I wouldn't give a raving recommendation of buy, buy, buy for any of the Heritage brushes he has for sale. All of them are well past the point of what they cost back in the day, and having experienced the knots of Rooney from years previous. I bought some for the nostalgia of the handles, but not at these prices. There's too many excellent brushes out there at a cheaper price than these. If you really wanted a Rooney, pick up that Rooney S11 the seller has. It's a Style 1 Size 1 in faux ivory, and the silvertip variety. I found the block lettering Rooney's for those to be slightly better, but only slightly. That brush I feel is a good deal if you really want a Rooney and don't mind the small size.

Also, there are some identical brushes (i.e., Emillion and Victorian) available on Amazon and Walmart! for less (e.g., $184 w/ free shipping vs. $199 for the Victorian).

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 11-09-2018, 01:28 PM
#67
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(11-09-2018, 01:27 PM)Paladin Shaving Wrote:
(11-09-2018, 01:12 PM)kooshman7 Wrote:
(11-09-2018, 06:16 AM)Kevinklu Wrote: In following the conversation doesn’t seem like any of these will be the heritage knots. Any strongly worth considering? Thanks for posting!

I wouldn't give a raving recommendation of buy, buy, buy for any of the Heritage brushes he has for sale. All of them are well past the point of what they cost back in the day, and having experienced the knots of Rooney from years previous. I bought some for the nostalgia of the handles, but not at these prices. There's too many excellent brushes out there at a cheaper price than these. If you really wanted a Rooney, pick up that Rooney S11 the seller has. It's a Style 1 Size 1 in faux ivory, and the silvertip variety. I found the block lettering Rooney's for those to be slightly better, but only slightly. That brush I feel is a good deal if you really want a Rooney and don't mind the small size.

Also, there are some identical brushes (i.e., Emillion and Victorian) available on Amazon and Walmart! for less (e.g., $184 w/ free shipping vs. $199 for the Victorian).


24

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 11-10-2018, 05:56 AM
#68
  • BSWoodturning
  • Co-Owner, Brad Sears ShaveWorks
  • Maryland Eastern Shore
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(11-09-2018, 12:45 AM)kooshman7 Wrote: Keeping Rooney's brushes they made and when they came out can be a feat in and of itself.

Looking for churchillafemme's posts can show you a wide range of brushes. This following photo is from his thread here.

[Image: 0uA4LNg.jpg]


The first three are the original Stubby line. They were produced in 3-band Super Silvertip (also known as 3-band Heritage), 2-band Super Silvertip (2-band Heritage), and Finest.
The first on the right is the XXL and was when the original Stubby line was active. I only saw 3 XXLs on a sale at Classic Shaving one time, and that was only for 3-band Heritage.

The second generation is the XL line as seen in the 4th from the left. I don't recall ever seeing the XL in Finest, and John (churchillafemme) mentions in his post that the XL with two rings apparently was custom ordered. Stock of Finest was becoming limited to what I recall when 2-band Heritage came out replacing 3-band Heritage, and with that the gel tip craze started and took some of the brunt away from limited Finest stock.

The third generation is when Rooney started back with the Heritage handle brushes, but now started filling the brushes with a less densely packed amount of hair. I had a Beehive 2 here, and still have an Emillion2, and I can personally vouch that the more current Emillion 2 is no where near the terms of density of a 3-band Heritage Emillion 2 I used to have. Not the same hair either, but it's not bad. It's just not the legendary stuff of old. The XL line (they actually returned to calling it just the Stubby now) is what stood out to the most for me when I saw Rooney was putting out brushes again, and it's hard to explain. I had a Stubby 1 2-band heritage for awhile, and it had more of a refined ring, with a touch of sharpness. It was nothing bad. The best way I can think of calling it is a ridge ring. I have a Stubby 1XL and 2XL and lookwise and feelwise the XL line has always reminded me of an approximation between the ring on the Style 1 and the original Stubby and a combination of the 2. I no longer have a Stubby to compare with unfortunately, and even know the Stubby doesn't have as much difference in how it looks vs the Style 1. I'm inclined to trust my gut feeling of how it was. The newer Stubby line has a ring below the two rings that just isn't present in the original XL line. Sorry I can't find the right words for it, but for me having used both a Stubby and Stubby XLs, the difference between the Stubby that was brought back to the market has a clear difference to the original XL.

Your brush DudeAbides, is what I consider the newer, third generation, but the picture of what you posted does look nice!

I hope the information is helpful.

Great information, Joe.  You're right:  getting good information on what Rooney produced--and when--can be a challenge.  You make a good point about the current  Stubby being clearly different from the older Stubby versions.  While many (most?) call the current Stubby a 3-ring design, it's actually--as you point out--a 2-ring with a small v-groove butting up against the first ring.  The difference being that the v-groove has a sharp tip in contrast to the rounded rings above it.  Similarly, the contemporary Style 1 has a wider central ring with a wider, more pronounced and nicely profiled, ring at the base as shown on the M&F brush below.  I wish I had a Rooney-branded brush to illustrate, however the handle shown is a rendering of a Rooney Lee sent me to copy.

This has been a most helpful thread, BTW.

[Image: RLn1Vl6.jpg]

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 11-10-2018, 07:43 AM
#69
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The first to photos below are of a Style 1 Size 1 (left) and a Style 1 Size 2 (right). Both have old Rooney Finest knots. The Olde Apothecary Shop brush was made by Rooney and the handle is identical in shape and size to the standard Rooney Style 1 Size 2. I don't know what this material was called. It's very white and has the appearance of porcelain to me.

The third photo shows three brushes which, per my past understanding gathered around the time I bought them in 2012, I would call an XL size 2 (one ring), a 2XL Size 2 (2 rings), and a Stubby Size 2 (one ring). Each of these these brushes has the Hand 2 Made/Super Badger/Made in England label printed on its backside. The left and center brushes have handles turned from what I refer to as Somerset. I believe this is the same material that was used to make the so-called Somerset-era Simpson handles with closely similar appearance. The brush at right has a handle turned from faux Ivory. 

It was never my understanding that the 2-ring XL (2XL by my nomenclature) was a custom shape. I believe that style was shown on the Vintage Blades site (but I'm not absolutely sure about that). In any case, several examples showed up on the boards back when I was paying close attention to Rooney brushes. I do remember being confused by 1, 2, or 3  indicating a style as distinguished from 1, 2, or 3 as indicating size. Maybe I'm still confused.

All of these handles were turned on CNC lathes.

[Image: PB103313cc4ws_zpsijluwulj.jpg]

[Image: PB103316cc4psdws_zpsblpkqenz.jpg]

[Image: PB103317cws_zps3z7wo7tl.jpg]

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 11-10-2018, 08:51 AM
#70
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And for good measure here are three 2XL Size 2s. The brush at center is labeled Rooney. The Faux Jade and Faux Briar examples are labeled Morris & Forndran. I got both of those from Lee at the same time in early 2013 (there is a longer story). FWIW, I had specifically requested 2XL Size 2 handles.

Some might notice that the handle on the right is slightly shorter due to a bit more of its base having been faced off. I'd guess either there was some surface irregularity that was intentionally removed or a tool-offset had strayed a little. 

[Image: PB103321cws_zpsid1wyj2e.jpg]

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 11-10-2018, 10:04 AM
#71
  • bijou
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  • Chicago Illinois
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Talking about Rooney's, I know very little about Stubby's and I don't mean to be a party pooper but I never cared for the Stubby handle though I did purchase a Stubby 3 3 band years back and sold it last year and I do have a few older M&F Stubby's. I had on occasion years past borrowed two Rooney finest which I didn't like, to scitchy, but I did and do like the 2 band Supper Badger in which I acquired a Highlander and Beehive. Lastly, I acquired from Jim when he was closing down his business a 2 band prototype, scripted Silver Badger Rooney tortoise Emillion. Gel tipped pillow soft mild backbone. Jim told me the knot was put into an existing handle just to see if a new 2 band line would be the next Rooney offering (a new type of 2 band knot in Tortoise handles).

[Image: YDP7mnt.jpg] [Image: bIBmlhV.jpg]

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 11-10-2018, 10:11 AM
#72
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That is sweet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm jealous. 

It's interesting that it bears the script logo. 

Jim was a Prince. I hope he is well.

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 11-10-2018, 10:12 AM
#73
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Thank you Mr. Ken

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 11-10-2018, 07:57 PM
#74
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An odd couple: Style 1, size 1 and Style 3, size 3 (both dressed in Finest):

[Image: PB103344cdsws_zpsppefkjgf.jpg]

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 11-10-2018, 08:19 PM
#75
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That “long haired” badger hair was something special.


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 11-10-2018, 08:30 PM
#76
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(11-10-2018, 08:19 PM)ultra~nova Wrote: That “long haired” badger hair was something special.

Yes, it was. I think I have eight brushes with Old Rooney Finest knots. I paid $300 (or maybe $310) for that 1:1. It was my first. I was desperate to get a Rooney Finest. 

They're marvelous to behold,  and they feel wonderfully soft when dry. But collectively, I don't think I've used mine more than a half-dozen times. They're just too scritchy for me. I've never been able to figure out why. 

BTW, that 3:3 is lofted at 67.50 mm!

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 11-11-2018, 05:08 PM
#77
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(11-09-2018, 12:45 AM)kooshman7 Wrote: Your brush DudeAbides, is what I consider the newer, third generation, but the picture of what you posted does look nice!

I hope the information is helpful.
Very helpful thank you kindly.
[Image: 79c1df63fbd54c9ce6dc796ad40a80dd.jpg]
I bought the brush on the premise that I could send it back if I did not like it. The splay is pretty, the handle well made , the hair is nothing special and does not change my feeling about three band knots especially at $300. I sent it back. The hunt continues.

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 11-11-2018, 05:13 PM
#78
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Does anyone have Lee’s email? The good ol days....


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 11-12-2018, 04:25 AM
#79
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(11-11-2018, 05:13 PM)ultra~nova Wrote: Does anyone have Lee’s email? The good ol days....


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I feel like this question has been asked once or twice across various forums.

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 11-12-2018, 06:55 AM
#80
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Yes it certainly was , I thought a few folks might catch this and have a laugh.


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