09-11-2012, 11:51 AM
#1
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
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[Image: P1250333.JPG?m=1347391949]

Heinrich L Thater is a German company established in 1913,so almost 100 years of history behind their back.

I have used some Thaters in the past (3 band badger hair) which I founded to be very good : as good as shavemac silvertip .Yes,basically the same...or should I say,"the same"Wink

Recently, Thater have introduced a new line a two band badger hair,under some people request from the German forum gut rasiert , and this is one of the results.I believe that they get more request/petitions , from the USA two band badger "fanboys" , and they saw the market wide open in front of them (and I cant blame that)

Well,the result is not as good as I was expecting,but maybe this is because Im loosing "appreciation" for the two band badger hair brushes.Funny,since I used to loved them and I almost sold all mine 3 band badger hair brushes to purchase more of these brushes...

[Image: P1250334.JPG?m=1347392029]

What do you want me to tell you about this brush? Maybe its measures :
  • 22 mm knot
  • 50 mm loft
  • 91 mm total height

so this is kind of a "smallish" shaving brush.

For me this is a TGB finest badger knot,glued to a handle and the Thater name on it..(oh boy,I just said it..).

Yes,thats all.This brush has a nice handle,but nothing spectacular and not clearly, on the same Premier League than the UK brush makers (maybe Edwin Jagger and some Vulfix,but not Simpson or Rooney).

The hair is simply TGN finest badger hair with its strongholds (backbone) and some lacks (flow).The tips are white,but a little bit scritchy.

This is not a very dense hair brush either :

[Image: P1250336.JPG?m=1347391951]

And again,the handle is comfortable enough to hold (looks like a German version of the Semogue 830 handle) :

[Image: P1250335.JPG?m=1347391946]

And guess what,gents? This brush is only 146.99 dollars!!! Yeah baby,what a bargain!(oh wait Facepalm) I wonder if some stores think that we are crazy or ignorant enough to buy a brush like this for this price,at the same price range (almost) than some much nicer Rooney super badger two band or Vie Long two band (I dont even want to mention the Semogue SOC two band) and more expensive than a Simpson Duke 3 best,or Classic 1 or 2 in best...Yes,I know that a lot of fanboys out there would pay for a wooden stick painted black and white,like a two band badger hair,but Im sure they know that they're being ripped off...

No,this brush is not a lather hog (yahoooo!!!) but cant compete with many brushes under this price range.Actually,even costing 79 bucks will be loosing against a nice Rooney 1/1 silvertip.

Yes,I think you got my thoughts about this brush.I wish that they could priced this brush more accordingly to its real value.

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 09-11-2012, 12:08 PM
#2
  • njpaddy
  • Member
  • Central New Jersey
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I've been a bit disappointed in my 49125/0 3 band Thater. I have 3 cheaper brushes I favor with hard soaps and it's in a battle with a Rooney 1/1 for my #2 spot with soft creams. I had hoped for better performance, but it sure does look good.

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 09-11-2012, 12:11 PM
#3
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
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(09-11-2012, 12:08 PM)njpaddy Wrote: I've been a bit disappointed in my 49125/0 3 band Thater. I have 3 cheaper brushes I favor with hard soaps and it's in a battle with a Rooney 1/1 for my #2 spot with soft creams. I had hoped for better performance, but it sure does look good.

My friend,Im very interested in having a look to that old Rooney 3/1 that you have,compared to the new 1/1 that you also have.

Im afraid that Rooney beats,in many cases, the Thater brushes.

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 09-11-2012, 01:28 PM
#4
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Actually, Rooney handles are now made with regular resin, which is the same material as the Thater. But if you meant they were more aesthetically pleasing, then I must agree with you.

Also, you said TGB instead of TGN. Wink

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 09-11-2012, 04:31 PM
#5
  • njpaddy
  • Member
  • Central New Jersey
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(09-11-2012, 12:11 PM)Teiste Wrote: My friend,Im very interested in having a look to that old Rooney 3/1 that you have,compared to the new 1/1 that you also have.

The Rooney 3/1 in Coral is about 3 years old. The loft is 48 and it doesn't have the backbone of the newer 1/1 whose loft is 43/44. The older knot is not as dense and it opens up with a lot of splay on the face. The older brush is softer without any scritch. Surprisingly the moppy 3/1 works wonders with a hard soap like Harris.

   

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 09-11-2012, 04:49 PM
#6
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It is always YMMV ... but I could not disagree more with your judgement...

1) There is no data whatsoever to believe there is any connection between Thaeter and shavemac... to my best knowledge and that of most German shavers they are both independent manufacturers of their knots.

2) I view both their 3 band and 2 band brushes as among the best out there... certainly much more reliable quality than Simpson for example...

3) You have choices regarding the density of their 2 band brushes. Stouts are more dense than others. Their 2 band brushes have very soft tips (I have 3 of them) and great flow through.

Now, in the end this is always YMMV but Thaeter brushes are an icon in Germany much as Simpson/Kent for the UK.

I do believe that their offering of 2 band brushes was actually initiated by the U.S. market. In Germany they are still not offered as part of their regular line up and they do not show in their web page (at least last time I checked). I do not know how they source their 2 band hair but it became quickly a favorite amongst 2 band lovers.

The first run of 2 band was a LE for a U.S. shaving forum followed by a broader entry into the market.

For me - and of course YMMV - Thater 2 band is the becnhmark to beat... Biggrin

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 09-11-2012, 05:52 PM
#7
  • VTMAX
  • Banned
  • Woodstock, Vermont
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I have to agree with German. Having grown up with pre David Carter Nimmer Mill Simpsons I will say these Thater Two Bands are right there. Right now I consider them the best in the business and I say this with over 20 Somerset Simpsons on the shelf. The Thater softness & backbone are top notch.

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 09-11-2012, 06:12 PM
#8
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
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(09-11-2012, 04:49 PM)German Wrote: It is always YMMV ... but I could not disagree more with your judgement...

1) There is no data whatsoever to believe there is any connection between Thaeter and shavemac... to my best knowledge and that of most German shavers they are both independent manufacturers of their knots.

2) I view both their 3 band and 2 band brushes as among the best out there... certainly much more reliable quality than Simpson for example...

3) You have choices regarding the density of their 2 band brushes. Stouts are more dense than others. Their 2 band brushes have very soft tips (I have 3 of them) and great flow through.

Now, in the end this is always YMMV but Thaeter brushes are an icon in Germany much as Simpson/Kent for the UK.

I do believe that their offering of 2 band brushes was actually initiated by the U.S. market. In Germany they are still not offered as part of their regular line up and they do not show in their web page (at least last time I checked). I do not know how they source their 2 band hair but it became quickly a favorite amongst 2 band lovers.

The first run of 2 band was a LE for a U.S. shaving forum followed by a broader entry into the market.

For me - and of course YMMV - Thater 2 band is the becnhmark to beat... Biggrin

1.Are you sure about that?Well,I hope to have an interview with somebody soon (or maybe next year) and provide more info about that.WinkOr I just maybe understood the story wrong ! ha!If thats the case,I will make it known too.Biggrin

2.The 3 band I have tried,were nice,but nothing spectacular or even better than the shavemac I own or I have tried.I actually found them very,very similar...(silvertip grade and almost same knot).

3.Yes,you are right about that.However,this brush,for its price,is not quiet dense.I actually dont think it would be a good idea to put more hair on it,but to lower its price , for sure.

Im sure that Thater brushes are icons in our beloved Deutschland and I understand that too : a company which have survived since 1913 making brushes deserves my respect (as well as other companies) and yes,no mention to the two band brushes in their website.
Thater Rasierpinsel.

Also you are right about the first run being requested by a shaving forum (SRP) as a limited edition brush.

About your last sentences,I do disagree,Im afraid,but its a question of personal preference : I don think/prefer Vie Long or Semogue two band over this Thater badger hair brush.However,I would have to try as many Thater two bands as I have tried VL two bands to reach a fully conclusion : this was just made comparing this particular Thater vs other two band brushes.But this Thater is not nearly as good as other made in Germany brushes I have tried from Muhle,shavemac or even Thater.

Lets see what the owner of this brush has to say about it.Biggrin

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 09-11-2012, 06:15 PM
#9
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
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(09-11-2012, 05:52 PM)VTMAX Wrote: I have to agree with German. Having grown up with pre David Carter Nimmer Mill Simpsons I will say these Thater Two Bands are right there. Right now I consider them the best in the business and I say this with over 20 Somerset Simpsons on the shelf. The Thater softness & backbone are top notch.

Max : really interesting remark,sir for a Somerset Simpson lover as it seems you are.
BTW,how do you like the Somerset two band (best or super badger) Simpson and how would you compare them with the actual ones?Thanks a lot.

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 09-11-2012, 06:58 PM
#10
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I've only tried two 3 band Thaters, and 1 D01 3 band Shavemac, but the hair seemed pretty different to me as well as the construction of the brushes. Thater 3 band is about as soft as it gets.

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 09-11-2012, 07:06 PM
#11
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Rooney Heritage hair is better IMO.

The Thater as has been pointed out isn't terribly dense.

The Thater is better than the Simpsons 2 bands I've come across. Although their new offerings look more like Rooney's Stubby hair.

Thater is softer than M&F 2 band, but I was never terribly impressed with that one.

So, Thater is better than a lot of 2 bands out there, but I'm not going to crown it king. A prince among others, maybe.

Haven't tried the D01, but Shavemac makes the lofts so short...

Also, Shavemac has changed their knot manufacturer a year or two ago or so. I have that from the source.

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 09-11-2012, 07:09 PM
#12
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This is quite interesting. i have only tried the Thater 3-band and was not very impressed. Good brush, but not enough backbone for me. Enjoy your brushes, gents.

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 09-12-2012, 03:19 AM
#13
  • VTMAX
  • Banned
  • Woodstock, Vermont
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Teiste, I will admit my excitement above for the Thaters, particularly the larger 4125/2 & 3. I guess they appeal to me for their softness but also their ability to retain good backbone. I always thought the Simpson two bands to be a favorite but I have noticed I am reaching more and more for their three band supers of late. Softer brushes these days. To Lee's point I shaved with the Rooney Heritage 2XL this AM and, at least for today, crowning that one king!

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 09-12-2012, 10:13 AM
#14
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Revisiting Teiste's remarks about price. I wholeheartedly agree with him.

That said, only the Semogue OC 2 band and perhaps Vie Long (although I haven't seen the price) offers a competitive product for less money.

D01 2B, Simpson, M&F BB, and Rooney Heritage (oh god don't get me started on the price on that one...) are all price at the same or more.

FS, Lijun, and TGN are of course cheaper, but their consistency is junk. You might as well buy 5 and keep the best 1 or 2. At least with TGN you can go into the store and cherry pick. Well, I can anyway. Biggrin

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 09-13-2012, 04:05 AM
#15
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WOW. i just used my 3 band thater and have to say, it's a wondeful brush and well worth it's price point, but everyone has different preferences and expectations with brushes.

Tesite, just wondering how many times you used it in a "shave" setting, not including any test lathers? as i've heard so many good things about the Thater 2 band, this seems out of the ordinary for what I was expecting to hear.

I know for me, sometimes it takes 5-7 shaves to fully appreciate all it's features and sometimes even longer.

Again, my thoughts are based on the 3 band Silvertip Stout 2, not the 2 band (which I still hope to get one day)

I find the handle to be ultra comfortable for face lathering and I think it's an original Thater Style (I could be wrong) and have seen many other copies of it out there.

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 09-13-2012, 05:15 AM
#16
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Chiming in to agree with German and disagree with our beloved Teiste. The Thater's I've tried, and now own, are comparable to or better than any other brush I've been fortunate enough to try (though keep in mind my range of experience is smaller than almost everyone else's on this thread.) I was just lent another 7 high end brushes from a friend (including a stunning pre-Vulfix Chubby 3 I'll need a dolly and winch to carry) and that includes some more big knot Thaters. I'll post a pic later so you can see what I've got.

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 09-13-2012, 08:05 AM
#17
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
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(09-13-2012, 04:05 AM)Bruce Wrote: WOW. i just used my 3 band thater and have to say, it's a wondeful brush and well worth it's price point, but everyone has different preferences and expectations with brushes.

Tesite, just wondering how many times you used it in a "shave" setting, not including any test lathers? as i've heard so many good things about the Thater 2 band, this seems out of the ordinary for what I was expecting to hear.

I know for me, sometimes it takes 5-7 shaves to fully appreciate all it's features and sometimes even longer.

Again, my thoughts are based on the 3 band Silvertip Stout 2, not the 2 band (which I still hope to get one day)

I find the handle to be ultra comfortable for face lathering and I think it's an original Thater Style (I could be wrong) and have seen many other copies of it out there.

I have tried once and it was enough...I dont want to sound arrogant,but I think I have tried enough brushes to know what I like,what I dont,what is quality and what is not...This particular brush,at that pricepoint,is simply ridiculous.Could my friend Lee got a not so good Thater?Yes,it could have been the case.
The Thater 3 band I have tried (if they dont have any shedding issues...) are good brushes,but not better than shavemac.

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 09-13-2012, 08:51 AM
#18
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(09-13-2012, 08:05 AM)Teiste Wrote: I have tried once and it was enough...I dont want to sound arrogant,but I think I have tried enough brushes to know what I like,what I dont,what is quality and what is not...This particular brush,at that pricepoint,is simply ridiculous.Could my friend Lee got a not so good Thater?Yes,it could have been the case.
The Thater 3 band I have tried (if they dont have any shedding issues...) are good brushes,but not better than shavemac.

I still feel one use is not enough time to give such a lengthy and in depth review and enorsement or negative review. As you are probably well aware, your reviews (by an Admin and a brush connoisseur) hold a lot of weight with members and readers of them, and to dismiss a brush after 1 use, may be a bit quick to pass such a judgement on, at least that's how I feel. Everyone has a bad day, bad lather, wrong prep etc, and if you had given the review on a different day, it might have been a glowing endorsement, you never know. Blush

If I had gotten rid of items and/or endoresed them after 1 use, I'd be in a lot of trouble. As many have had lackluster 1st uses (software, hardware and the like) and have turned out to be some of my favorites and visa versa. Products and software should be used more then once before dimissing them and/or endorsing them with such detail and passion.

I'm sorry it didn't work out for you, but as a few others have said, the Thater 2 band is a well regarded brush and if it's anything like my Thater Stout 2 from Bullgoose (not a shedder), it deserves a fair shake.

There is no single brush (or anything shave related for that matter) that will be for everyone and perhaps this brush was just not meant to be for you.

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 09-13-2012, 09:40 AM
#19
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I'm 95% certain the brush is not defective in any way.

I'm also pretty sure Teiste didn't say the brush was bad. I think he just said the price point was ridiculous for the quality. I think that is a subjective opinion, but one I cannot personally disagree with.

He compares it to TGN Finest, but IIRC Teiste doesn't own any of the recent TGN knots. I can attest that the old TGN knots are much better than the new ones, although if you go down to Tony's shop and cherry pick one, you can get a knot exactly like the Thaters. Yes, I did it. I also sold it because the TGN has so little hair in comparison.

Honestly though, the hair was the same. The other knots at TGN were not the same and were clearly of lesser quality than the Thater. Also, the construciton of the TNG knots left a little to be desired, not so with the Thater.

So, on the whole Thater is better than the vast majority of TGN finest knots. Thater is definitely much more dense. Thater has better quality control and the variance is very small, unlike TGN. But, if you get a top quality TGN knot, it is the same hair. Good luck with that though.

The Thater is still better for me as it has more hair. Much mroe hair. Also, the bulb shape is nicer. Probably better QC.

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 09-13-2012, 09:50 AM
#20
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@asharperrazor..I never said that Teiste said it was a bad brush and I am not challenging anyones opinion, not yours not Teiste's, that wasn't my point.

Opinions are just that...opinions, nothing more, nothing less. They are personal and not fact and everyone is entitled to have one. All I was doing was stating mine, which was "one use it not enough time to evaluate a products performance" (scent is a whole other discussion and not relevant here)

Thanks,

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