09-11-2012, 07:07 PM
#1
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I recently opened my tub of S&D Sagebrush shave cream to discover a light tan, greasy goopy mess. I contacted the company and here's what they had to say. The scent of the product remains good, but it sure does look nasty. I use a decorative vintage baby spoon to dip out my creams, so I know there is no water in the tub to cause a problem. I'm just posting this in case anyone else has had this problem with the product.

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Sagebrush Shave Cream
From: BlackWolf
Date: Wed, August 29, 2012 7:09 pm
To: "info@spencerdevon.com"



I purchased your Sagebrush shave cream Feb 28th, 2012, through Amazon.com. I have used some of the product. I opened the tub day before yesterday and the cream is turning a light tan color and has what appears to be oil laying on top of the cream in the jar. It is kept capped when not in use and stored in my cabinet with other shave creams. The other brands are fine with no discoloration or seperation of the product. I haven't used your shave cream since I've no idea if the product is still useable or not. It looks terrible! I am quite disappointed.

Pamela Jones,




----- Forwarded Message ---
From: "info@spencerdevon.com"
To: BlackWolf
Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 3:23 PM
Subject: RE: Sagebrush Shave Cream

Pamela:

Thank you for writing us and allowing me to explain exactly why your cream is both usable and safe. The explanation is technical and shows some differences between our products and those of our competitors.

Here's a list of reasons why you can continue to use your Spencer & Devon shaving cream without fear:

- Unlike most shaving creams you own, ours contains various oils (avocado, olive). Most creams contain very little oil at all, if they contain any. Many are completely water-based (Penhaligon's, Truefitt & Hill, Taylor, Art of Shaving, numerous others) and use only fatty acids and glycerin to form the cream base. These fatty acids and glycerin are fully soluble in water (think of adding a shake of salt to a glass of tap water). By using natural oils, we use ingredients that may reconstitute over time (think of sugar in iced tea - usually some granules do not disappear after mixing). We also use shea butter. When you use our cream over time, the oil may separate from the rest of the liquid base OR you may have added water to the jar while shaving such that the water is absorbed by the remaining cream and displaces the oils because "water and oil don't mix." Just stir and it is fine.

- The "coloration" comes from the essential oils used to scent the cream. Both the sagebrush and spice varieties will have some coloration that comes through over time. The unscented will not because it has no essential oils. We specifically chose NOT to add colors to the mix to mask this because we did not want to add unnecessary chemicals. This coloring has zero effect on the product's use or performance.

- Our shaving cream is a chemical formulation like all the others available on the market. We prepared a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for each variety. The MSDS analysis for each variety of our shaving cream rated our products at the lowest possible level of potential negative effects (flammability, corrosion, stability - these are ratings in the NFPA diamond described here) - it is not flammable, it will not corrode or cause toxicity problems, and it is highly stable. In other words, it has a 0 rating for each category. In this area, the scores are like golf scores - the lower the better.




For these reasons, you can use the product with full confidence. I have experienced the same changes you have and use it regularly with no bad effects. I helped comparative-test our product against our competitiors. It remains the best shaving cream in my rather large collection.

Sincerely,

Russ DePalma

VP Development

Spencer & Devon, LLC

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 09-11-2012, 07:37 PM
#2
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
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Are you going to keep using it,Pam?

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 09-11-2012, 07:43 PM
#3
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I stirred it up, but I'm thinking probably not.

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 09-11-2012, 09:07 PM
#4
  • beartrap
  • Resident Цирюльник
  • Southern California
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Pam, would you take a picture for us or you can't really see it like that?

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 09-12-2012, 03:49 AM
#5
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I have the same product and situation. I did what the makers said, stir it up and use it. So far, no problems. Still get a great lather and the scent remains as well.

From my experience, it would appear that the makers statement is correct. I intend to use it till it's gone and don't anticipate any problems.

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 09-12-2012, 07:39 AM
#6
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(09-11-2012, 07:07 PM)MsBlackwolf Wrote: For these reasons, you can use the product with full confidence.

Spencer & Devon, LLC

On the other hand, attempting to please the customer would seem to be more important than explaining why they're wrong. I think that an offer of a refund would have been appropriate.

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 09-12-2012, 08:19 AM
#7
  • beartrap
  • Resident Цирюльник
  • Southern California
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(09-12-2012, 07:39 AM)churchilllafemme Wrote:
(09-11-2012, 07:07 PM)MsBlackwolf Wrote: For these reasons, you can use the product with full confidence.

Spencer & Devon, LLC

On the other hand, attempting to please the customer would seem to be more important than explaining why they're wrong. I think that an offer of a refund would have been appropriate.

Agreed! This response is not what you would expect from a customer service.
To make an unrealistic comparison, if you buy a car and it doesn't start, the manufacturer will not suggest you try and jump-start it.

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 09-12-2012, 09:17 AM
#8
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I have lots of shave cream. We all probably have plenty. Most of it has been around for far longer than the S&D. None of them have changed color, nor turned into a goopy mess that needs stirred up before you use it. Creams tend to dry out if anything. I'd think they would want to sell more than 1 to a customer. Bottom line: Even though the cream is usable, I wouldn't buy again.

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 09-12-2012, 09:31 AM
#9
  • Johnny
  • Super Moderator
  • Wausau, Wisconsin, USA
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I guess that's what you call stirring the pot.

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 09-15-2012, 07:24 PM
#10
  • Andrew
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX
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I think if I found the cream to truly perform better than all of my others, I'd keep buying it regardless of what it looks like. But if it's all the same, l'll take the product I don't have to fuss with.

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 09-16-2012, 09:08 AM
#11
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The cream separates very easily; although it doesn't seem to affect the performance (once you put it back in a cold place or stir it), I choose not to carry it in my store because of potential customer complaints. It retails for around $30 and at that price-point, people expect perfection... rightly so.

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 01-22-2013, 12:16 PM
#12
  • TexBilly
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Austin, TX
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I see both sides but the rep's explanation makes sense to me and I don't read it as a cop-out, but an explanation of why their product is different than many if not all other creams. So even though a good faith refund or replacement would have been nice, the explanation is not out of bounds. What I WOULD have done if it was my company is provide this information on their website and packaging, to set expectations. This still might not please everyone but it would reduce the surprise element.

I happen to have a jar of the spice on loan and look forward to trying it out.

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 01-22-2013, 01:16 PM
#13
  • Songwind
  • Soap Slinger & Scuttle Pusher
  • Burnsville, MN
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(09-12-2012, 07:39 AM)churchilllafemme Wrote: On the other hand, attempting to please the customer would seem to be more important than explaining why they're wrong. I think that an offer of a refund would have been appropriate.

While I see where you're coming from, what would be the point? If the cream is behaving within expected limits, one can probably assume a new tub of cream kept in the same conditions will also separate.

Offering to replace it with the same product would be like organic peanut butter makers giving you a new tub because the oil separated. No one would ever be happy.

Maybe it's just because I live in MN where it's cool, or possibly Spice is less prone to this, but my S&D cream hasn't done this. NM, realized OP is from Wisconsin, so that ain't it.

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 01-22-2013, 02:27 PM
#14
  • blzrfn
  • Butterscotch Bandit
  • Vancouver USA
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Lots of good responses here. I would use it and would gladly trade you for something rather than having you throw it out.

As to their response, could have been better but not bad. Texbilly and Songwind both have sound posts, a quick warning on their label advising to stir if separation occurs would deter having to write (or copy and paste) that long winded response on a regular basis. Also, if I know a product is known to have some finicky characteristics beforehand I am more than happy to give them a try if I think they are going to perform at a high level or save me a bit of money.

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 01-22-2013, 03:55 PM
#15
  • Crag
  • Senior Member
  • Menifee, Ca 92586
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I had quite the opposite response from them when they sent me a tub of spice that smelled like unscented. They sent a new tub out and said the first one was on them. I was very pleased with their response. They also added samples for their other scents, sage and unscented which were very generous. it seems that my tub never got the oils added, because unscented smelled different completely than what I had which was a Waxy scent.

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