12-10-2018, 04:30 PM
#21
  • Shaun
  • Senior Member
  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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Very interesting indeed. My handle is actually more a 'bone' colour.  And I agree, it is otherwise very much like the above picture, if not identical. perhaps the photo above didn't reflect the real colour of the handle? Hard to know. Either way, there will never be any certainty or capacity to judge with clarity unless there were brushes side by side and used one after the other for a while. 

This is the label(s) on the box mine came in, but I didn't buy from Old Town Shaving. And no, I didn't pay $249US for the brush! I acquired it some time back from a kind Nook member. Smile The numbers on a bar code do not refer to dates. The labels don't give much information away. As to density, well, I am glad my brush isn't any denser. It's pretty damn sturdy as it is! Any firmer or denser would be like dermo-abrasion Smile

[Image: Ze3Jzyj.jpg]
[Image: lTF9AG8.jpg]

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 12-10-2018, 05:51 PM
#22
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I'll see what I can learn about that. It's an interesting puzzle. 

I personally think it's highly improbably that the Old Town Shaving NOS Heritage Rooney brushes were made prior to 2013. The horn-handled brush that cropped up on eBay was almost certainly older (very early) Sabini-era stock, but it didn't belong to the Heritage line. 

Has anyone here had recent contact with Jim of Vintage Blades? 

I'd guess Lee could shed some light on these brushes but probably won't, which would be completely understandable. I don't think it's probably his place to speak for Rooney anymore. Speaking for Rooney means speaking for the brand; there is no Rooney with continuity of interest relating back to the original Rooney company. And the brand appears to have been essentially abandoned. 

It's a pity.

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 12-10-2018, 06:09 PM
#23
  • Shaun
  • Senior Member
  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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Found the link here in the Nook where the brush was advertised for sale.:

http://shavenook.com/showthread.php?tid=51913

It says it is Heritage, but not "Old Heritage". And that it is less dense (thankfully).

Anyway, it's a great brush. Just used it. No complaints. Does a fine job and it's a real lathering machine. Yields well. Firm, yet very soft on the face indeed. 

Thanks for the contributions, all. And Matador...I am sorry I shanghaied your thread!!!

Shaun

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 12-11-2018, 06:33 PM
#24
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The extreme density of the original heritage three band was very well balanced with tip softness , splay and loft setting making for a very unique experience not found in today’s three bands. These were not backbone heavy brushes like everyone seems to demand today , these were walls of pillow soft badger that made a stuck like octopus effect to the face.

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 12-11-2018, 07:02 PM
#25
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(12-11-2018, 06:33 PM)ultra~nova Wrote: The extreme density of the original heritage three band was very well balanced with tip softness , splay and loft setting making for a very unique experience not found in today’s three bands. These were not backbone heavy brushes like everyone seems to demand today , these were walls of pillow soft badger that made a stuck like octopus effect to the face.

+1

Great description.

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 12-11-2018, 07:41 PM
#26
  • Shaun
  • Senior Member
  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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(12-11-2018, 06:33 PM)ultra~nova Wrote: The extreme density of the original heritage three band was very well balanced with tip softness , splay and loft setting making for a very unique experience not found in today’s three bands. These were not backbone heavy brushes like everyone seems to demand today , these were walls of pillow soft badger that made a stuck like octopus effect to the face.

Is there an image of one? That would be very useful for all to see. Side-by-side to a the more recent Heritage three-band: even better.

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 12-12-2018, 03:48 AM
#27
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On the first page of this thread I posted a photo of my urn for visual reference.

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 12-12-2018, 07:07 AM
#28
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(12-11-2018, 07:41 PM)Shaun Wrote:
(12-11-2018, 06:33 PM)ultra~nova Wrote: The extreme density of the original heritage three band was very well balanced with tip softness , splay and loft setting making for a very unique experience not found in today’s three bands. These were not backbone heavy brushes like everyone seems to demand today , these were walls of pillow soft badger that made a stuck like octopus effect to the face.

Is there an image of one? That would be very useful for all to see. Side-by-side to a the more recent Heritage three-band: even better.

Both of these have the older Rooney Heritage Super Badger knots. I don't own one of the more recent so-called Heritage brushes. I don't consider them to share essential identity with the older ones.

[Image: PB043295cdsws_zpsmazugpz9.jpg]

[Image: PB073303ws_zpsmfgjgaom.jpg]

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 12-12-2018, 11:30 AM
#29
  • Shaun
  • Senior Member
  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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Interesting, yes. They do look different, don't they? Agreed. Perhaps an older Heritage Beehive will appear some time.

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 12-12-2018, 02:31 PM
#30
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First below is a photo of the real thing, IMO. This is from a BST listing on this board in December 2012. The seller was known to me, and I have no doubt regarding the accuracy of his description, which follows.

Rooney Heritage Beehive Size 2 (Large) in Super Badger 3-band – This is a stunning brush that is in excellent condition and is no longer made by Rooney. Those that have used these heritage brushes know why they are a coveted piece of any den. 


[Image: Rooney%20Beehive%20VB_zpsac8iiz1z.jpg]

And here are two screenshots from a current Alibaba listing. I am highly doubtful with regard to some of the representations made in this description. 

Who knows where the photo might have come from. But, although it's difficult to compare fine details based on photos taken in different settings/conditions, with different cameras/settings, from different angles, at different resolutions, etc., it appears to me that the beads/rings on the handle in the top photo are more crisply detailed, which is an impression I usually take away from photos of older Rooney Heritage handles as compared to recent ones. I'd love to have two in hand to compare directly. I'd gladly pay round-trip shipping costs within the US for the opportunity.

[Image: Rooney-Heritage-Beehive-Super-Silvertip-...i782nb.jpg]
[Image: Rooney-Heritage-Beehive-Super-Silvertip-...fawyd3.jpg]

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 12-12-2018, 02:37 PM
#31
  • Shaun
  • Senior Member
  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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Very similar handle to mine. "Crisply rounded". Loft also quite similar, but not so 'brown'. I think I may have an old one, but as I say, I like mine whatever it is.

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 12-12-2018, 02:43 PM
#32
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(12-12-2018, 02:37 PM)Shaun Wrote: Very similar handle to mine. "Crisply rounded". Loft also quite similar, but not so 'brown'. I think I may have an old one, but as I say, I like mine whatever it is.

Can you take and post one or two dead-on from center-height (of handle), high-resolution profile shots, preferably with a macro lens positioned at a sufficient distance to minimize perspective distortion? Black (or at least very dark) background would be best. Macro lens isn't necessary.

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 12-12-2018, 02:59 PM
#33
  • Shaun
  • Senior Member
  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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(12-12-2018, 02:43 PM)Paladin Shaving Wrote:
(12-12-2018, 02:37 PM)Shaun Wrote: Very similar handle to mine. "Crisply rounded". Loft also quite similar, but not so 'brown'. I think I may have an old one, but as I say, I like mine whatever it is.

Can you take and post one or two dead-on from center-height (of handle), high-resolution profile shots, preferably with a macro lens positioned at a sufficient distance to minimize perspective distortion? Black (or at least very dark) background would be best. Macro lens isn't necessary.

Only have a crappy iPhone, sorry Smile And I'm not at home right now, but will try to take a better picture later on.

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 12-12-2018, 03:07 PM
#34
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(12-12-2018, 02:59 PM)Shaun Wrote:
(12-12-2018, 02:43 PM)Paladin Shaving Wrote:
(12-12-2018, 02:37 PM)Shaun Wrote: Very similar handle to mine. "Crisply rounded". Loft also quite similar, but not so 'brown'. I think I may have an old one, but as I say, I like mine whatever it is.

Can you take and post one or two dead-on from center-height (of handle), high-resolution profile shots, preferably with a macro lens positioned at a sufficient distance to minimize perspective distortion? Black (or at least very dark) background would be best. Macro lens isn't necessary.

Only have a crappy iPhone, sorry Smile And I'm not at home right now, but will try to take a better picture later on.

If you don't have a tripod with an iPhone mount, stabilize the phone as well as you can. I'm going to PM my email address. Best if you could send me a full-sized image, or as large as Gmail will transmit.

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 12-12-2018, 03:13 PM
#35
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(12-12-2018, 03:07 PM)Paladin Shaving Wrote:
(12-12-2018, 02:59 PM)Shaun Wrote:
(12-12-2018, 02:43 PM)Paladin Shaving Wrote: Can you take and post one or two dead-on from center-height (of handle), high-resolution profile shots, preferably with a macro lens positioned at a sufficient distance to minimize perspective distortion? Black (or at least very dark) background would be best. Macro lens isn't necessary.

Only have a crappy iPhone, sorry Smile And I'm not at home right now, but will try to take a better picture later on.

If you don't have a tripod with an iPhone mount, stabilize the phone as well as you can. I'm going to PM my email address. Best if you could send me a full-sized image, or as large as Gmail will transmit.

Please post here as well!  Biggrin

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 12-12-2018, 04:01 PM
#36
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Here are photos from a current eBay listing. The beads on this handle do not look as crisply detailed as those on the one in the 2012 BST listing. They appear to me to be more rounded and less pronounced (i.e., the cuts separating them don't look as deep and seem to me to have a wider bottom radius). I say "cuts" assuming these were turned, but I'm not 100% sure about that. I don't see any machine marks.

Curiously, the labels look to me like they might have been engraved (or somehow impressed?) and painted. Pre-2013 Rooneys certainly were not. Can anyone who has purchased a brush from this eBay seller speak to that?

The knot is scrawny.

It's almost tempting to buy one of these just to cut it in half, put it under a microscope, and see what's there.

[Image: Rooney-Beehive-2-eBay-2ws_zpspnafjnr4.jpg]
[Image: Rooney-Beehive-2-eBay-3ws_zpsbgvzv7wn.jpg]
[Image: Rooney-Beehive-2-eBay-6ws_zpsrb39aaiy.jpg]
[Image: Rooney-Beehive-2-eBay-11ws_zpsrlrsvzpz.jpg]

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 12-13-2018, 08:04 AM
#37
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These are my 2 brushes with the old Heritage 3-band hair. The hair in these two brushes feels the same with regard to softness, lack of detectable scritch/scratch and firmness due to the high density. I did spend some time with the newer version of the Heritage 3-band back in i believe 2015. I liked the feel of this hair but it was definitely different than the old hair. It had a bit of scratchiness, and was of lower density. I would have kept the brush if not for shedding issues.

The black horn material on this brush is nice and you can see the striations better in person. However, the glue job I would say was sloppy compared with my other Rooney's. You can see it a little bit near the socket in the picture. There is a very large glue bump as well. On the bright side the glue bump probably keeps the dense fan from becoming completely unwieldy during the shave. I wonder if the other fellas with old horn handled Rooney's can comment on whether they have large glue bumps as well?
[Image: B8f3N7D.png]

[Image: 3F09ooS.png]

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 12-13-2018, 05:07 PM
#38
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(12-13-2018, 08:04 AM)shevek Wrote: The black horn material on this brush is nice and you can see the striations better in person. However, the glue job I would say was sloppy compared with my other Rooney's. You can see it a little bit near the socket in the picture. There is a very large glue bump as well. On the bright side the glue bump probably keeps the dense fan from becoming completely unwieldy during the shave. I wonder if the other fellas with old horn handled Rooney's can comment on whether they have large glue bumps as well?

I have three brushes with the same shaped horn handle. One is a Rooney Super Silvertips; the other two are M&F Blondes.

I don't think there is anything intrinsically bad about glue bumps. They just reflect a feature of typical knot construction. I care more about the length of hair above the glue. That said, glue bumps can definitely affect affect how a brush performs and feels, for better or worse depending both on the brush and a particular user's subjective bias.

Below is a photo of my Rooney horn. Loft is 54.5 mm with Free Loft of about 50 (measured at center with a graduated probe). That implies a 4.5 mm glue bump, which really isn't extreme at all in my opinion. But from the outside it feels huge. So, I also probed around the circumference above the base, and glue just inside the hair seems to rise to about 7.5-8 mm there. That isn't from primary knot construction; it results from leeching of the glue used to set the knot. At least that's my theory. If this doesn't make sense to anyone, I can post some photos to show what I mean.

[Image: PB043288cdscws_zps5hepuvea.jpg]

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 12-13-2018, 07:21 PM
#39
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(12-13-2018, 05:07 PM)Paladin Shaving Wrote:
(12-13-2018, 08:04 AM)shevek Wrote: The black horn material on this brush is nice and you can see the striations better in person. However, the glue job I would say was sloppy compared with my other Rooney's. You can see it a little bit near the socket in the picture. There is a very large glue bump as well. On the bright side the glue bump probably keeps the dense fan from becoming completely unwieldy during the shave. I wonder if the other fellas with old horn handled Rooney's can comment on whether they have large glue bumps as well?

I have three brushes with the same shaped horn handle. One is a Rooney Super Silvertips; the other two are M&F Blondes.

I don't think there is anything intrinsically bad about glue bumps. They just reflect a feature of typical knot construction. I care more about the length of hair above the glue. That said, glue bumps can definitely affect affect how a brush performs and feels, for better or worse depending both on the brush and a particular user's subjective bias.

Below is a photo of my Rooney horn. Loft is 54.5 mm with Free Loft of about 50 (measured at center with a graduated probe), so that implies a 4.5 mm glue bump, which really isn't extreme at all in my opinion, but from the outside it feels huge. I also probed around the circumference above the base and glue just inside the hair seem to rise to about 7.5-8 mm there. That isn't from primary knot construction but results from leeching of the glue used to set the knot. At least that's my theory. If this doesn't make sense to anyone, I can post some photos to show what I mean.

My horn brush is 26mm x 52mm with a free loft of 45mm, measured with a toothpick Biggrin . So a 7mm glue bump. It really does feel huge. But I have no issue with how the knot performs. I would mind if the knot felt overly stiff, but that is not an issue here.

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 12-13-2018, 08:11 PM
#40
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(12-13-2018, 07:21 PM)shevek Wrote: My horn brush is 26mm x 52mm with a free loft of 45mm, measured with a toothpick Biggrin . So a 7mm glue bump. It really does feel huge. But I have no issue with how the knot performs. I would mind if the knot felt overly stiff, but that is not an issue here.

I used a toothpick with inked markings until it occurred to me Cody could laser-engrave lines in .5'' increments on a shish kabob skewer. Then I coated it in clear epoxy to make it smooth.

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