01-18-2019, 06:36 PM
#21
User Info
So if you look at the dates above, two different sets of transactions. He refunded for the November EDPs, did a partial refund of the 10/01 Santal, and has refunded nothing for the 9/20 Santal.

208 1,229
 01-18-2019, 06:44 PM
#22
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 01-18-2019, 07:16 PM
#23
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Can't believe I had to go through all this to get to this.... It's not a full refund, but to hell with it....

[Image: ce86ryd.jpg]

208 1,229
 01-18-2019, 07:22 PM
#24
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So you paid $410 USD plus shipping, and he refunded $393.96?  How much was shipping?

59 9,335
 01-18-2019, 07:25 PM
#25
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The entire cost was $1,230AUD which translates to about $882. He is well short when you combine the refunds, but this is likely the best I could do... Shouldn't be the case though, should it?

208 1,229
 01-18-2019, 07:29 PM
#26
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What a shame it had to come to this to get a partial refund. I’ll be sure to keep this in mind if I am to ever consider purchasing anything...

12 610
 01-18-2019, 07:36 PM
#27
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You were fortunate to get what you did.  I'm glad you were at least able to recover most of your money.  This should never have happened.  Such behavior by a vendor is a real cause for concern.

59 9,335
 01-18-2019, 07:39 PM
#28
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(01-18-2019, 07:36 PM)TheLegalRazor Wrote: You were fortunate to get what you did.  I'm glad you were at least able to recover most of your money.  This should never have happened.  Such behavior by a vendor is a real cause for concern.

Agreed. Fortunately, there are plenty of upstanding vendors who, I am sure, would never do this to a customer.

208 1,229
 01-18-2019, 08:21 PM
#29
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You have now been paid $1,710 AUD and I am substantially out of pocket. 

I don't easily succumb to blackmail and threats and frankly it was my fault for presuming you would be of a much higher character. I did not however suspect that you would engage in such revolting, dishonest and fraudulent behaviour.

I will be contacting your employer in the new week, noting that several of your orders and communications were made from your workplace IP. It frightens me to think that you have gainful employment in such an important vocation given your reckless and actionable behaviour. 

I have of course retained time and date stamped copies of all your posts here including your posting of my private email address and further financial information that goes to your coercive attempt to extract monies from me. Copies of these posts will be provided to your employer forming amongst other things, the substantive and material component of my complaint regarding your actions and behaviour. 

You will remain blocked from contacting me further across all platforms, and I note that any and all contacts you do chose to make will be retained. I am sorry it has had to come to this, but as an artisan I cannot afford the financial cost of behaviour such as yours. 

I don't honestly know how you could think for even a second, that the outcome here would rest in your favour.

0 49
 01-18-2019, 08:24 PM
#30
User Info
(01-18-2019, 08:21 PM)todras Wrote: You have now been paid $1,710 AUD and I am substantially out of pocket. 

I don't easily succumb to blackmail and threats and frankly it was my fault for presuming you would be of a much higher character. I did not however suspect that you would engage in such revolting, dishonest and fraudulent behaviour.

I will be contacting your employer in the new week, noting that several of your orders and communications were made from your workplace IP. It frightens me to think that you have gainful employment in such an important vocation given your reckless and actionable behaviour. 

I have of course retained time and date stamped copies of all your posts here including your posting of my private email address and further financial information that goes to your coercive attempt to extract monies from me. Copies of these posts will be provided to your employer forming amongst other things, the substantive and material component of my complaint regarding your actions and behaviour. 

You will remain blocked from contacting me further across all platforms, and I note that any and all contacts you do chose to make will be retained. I am sorry it has had to come to this, but as an artisan I cannot afford the financial cost of behaviour such as yours. 

I don't honestly know how you could think for even a second, that the outcome here would rest in your favour.
Ok, Dan. You need to seek professional help. You are hardly substantially out of pocket. A good portion of the refunds were for items you never even sent to me in the first place. You still owe me for shipping on the Santal.

208 1,229
 01-18-2019, 08:39 PM
#31
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@todras, can you please explain why you are complaining about having to give a refund? Seems like it was legitimately owed. I have been close to purchasing your products a few times.

46 1,282
 01-18-2019, 09:16 PM
#32
User Info
First, this customer is a whale and was a promoter of the brand. I’d bend over backwards to keep him.

Second, I believe it is against PayPal’s terms to use F&F payments when operating as a business.

Third, why would you try to shame the customer with his employer in another country because he wanted a refund for product not delivered? It just makes you look unprofessional— not the other guy. Meanwhile, I look at this and think I’ll never have anything to do with this brand.

10 362
 01-18-2019, 09:56 PM
#33
  • Agravic
  • Emeritus
  • Pennsylvania, USA
User Info
(01-18-2019, 08:21 PM)todras Wrote: You have now been paid $1,710 AUD and I am substantially out of pocket. 

I don't easily succumb to blackmail and threats and frankly it was my fault for presuming you would be of a much higher character. I did not however suspect that you would engage in such revolting, dishonest and fraudulent behaviour.

I will be contacting your employer in the new week, noting that several of your orders and communications were made from your workplace IP. It frightens me to think that you have gainful employment in such an important vocation given your reckless and actionable behaviour. 

I have of course retained time and date stamped copies of all your posts here including your posting of my private email address and further financial information that goes to your coercive attempt to extract monies from me. Copies of these posts will be provided to your employer forming amongst other things, the substantive and material component of my complaint regarding your actions and behaviour. 

You will remain blocked from contacting me further across all platforms, and I note that any and all contacts you do chose to make will be retained. I am sorry it has had to come to this, but as an artisan I cannot afford the financial cost of behaviour such as yours. 

I don't honestly know how you could think for even a second, that the outcome here would rest in your favour.

Truly a troubling sequence of events that has transpired here.

Prior to this thread’s posting, I had not heard of this brand or it’s associated products. Based on the demeanor and attitude expressed by the artisan here, I have zero interest in ever hearing of this brand or its products again.

I’m dismayed by the artisan’s ungentlemanly and unprofessional tone of behaviour. It’s beyond revolting and rather ridiculous that the the customer is being bullied and threatened in a frankly malicious and unfounded manner. Potentially contacting a customer’s employer about a private transaction gone awry that has nothing to do with the customer’s occupation or place of employment?!?! You’ve got to be kidding! Who is right or wrong here in terms of the monies exchanged/returned is irrelevant to me at this point. What matters more to me is that the artisan’s true character or lack thereof that has been revealed here.

Wow.

112 19,135
 01-18-2019, 10:55 PM
#34
User Info
How about keeping this back and forth Bullshit private!

I joined this forum for learning/teaching old school wet shaving and keeping up on new product releases.

Not the read/see this rubbish.

FORUMS ARE NOT MADE FOR THIS, OR ANY TYPE OF AGRO...

0 1
 01-18-2019, 11:00 PM
#35
User Info
(01-18-2019, 10:55 PM)Keen Edge Wrote: How about keeping this back and forth Bullshit private!

I joined this forum for learning/teaching old school wet shaving and keeping up on new product releases.

Not the read/see this rubbish.

FORUMS ARE NOT MADE FOR THIS, OR ANY TYPE OF AGRO...

Trust me, I did everything I could to keep it private, but after weeks of no responses to messages, this was my last option.

Plenty of other threads here to view. No one is forcing you to read this one.

208 1,229
 01-18-2019, 11:43 PM
#36
  • TomG
  • Member
  • Perth, Western Australia
User Info
I can only add my personal experiences with the Vendor (APR) over the last couple of years.

I have made multiple purchases (> 10 batches), and found the service and products from @todras to be excellent on every occasion.
Communication from @todras was always friendly and prompt, with very good customer service in some examples where I needed some orders adjusted.
I will continue to buy products from this Vendor.

1 150
 01-19-2019, 04:02 AM
#37
User Info
(01-18-2019, 08:21 PM)todras Wrote: You have now been paid $1,710 AUD and I am substantially out of pocket. 

I don't easily succumb to blackmail and threats and frankly it was my fault for presuming you would be of a much higher character. I did not however suspect that you would engage in such revolting, dishonest and fraudulent behaviour.

I will be contacting your employer in the new week, noting that several of your orders and communications were made from your workplace IP. It frightens me to think that you have gainful employment in such an important vocation given your reckless and actionable behaviour. 

I have of course retained time and date stamped copies of all your posts here including your posting of my private email address and further financial information that goes to your coercive attempt to extract monies from me. Copies of these posts will be provided to your employer forming amongst other things, the substantive and material component of my complaint regarding your actions and behaviour. 

You will remain blocked from contacting me further across all platforms, and I note that any and all contacts you do chose to make will be retained. I am sorry it has had to come to this, but as an artisan I cannot afford the financial cost of behaviour such as yours. 

I don't honestly know how you could think for even a second, that the outcome here would rest in your favour.

I nearly just fell off my chair.. .Contacting his employer!?!? Are you kidding me? The two of you made an agreement, Chris performed his end, you did not. Chris asked for his money back, you ignored. We aren't talking about $20 here, it was a significant amount of cash he paid you as a trusted business owner using PayPal F&F. You took advantage of his trust. If you feel you have been extorted why don't you post some proof that you issued him a full refund before all this hoopla? There's only one person being transparent here and based on the evidence his frustration has complete merit. I personally wouldn't have been as patient as he was. This is becoming comical how delusional you are. Perhaps you need to follow Chris' suggestion and seek some professional help.

68 391
 01-19-2019, 04:10 AM
#38
User Info
(01-19-2019, 04:02 AM)happydaze Wrote:
(01-18-2019, 08:21 PM)todras Wrote: You have now been paid $1,710 AUD and I am substantially out of pocket. 

I don't easily succumb to blackmail and threats and frankly it was my fault for presuming you would be of a much higher character. I did not however suspect that you would engage in such revolting, dishonest and fraudulent behaviour.

I will be contacting your employer in the new week, noting that several of your orders and communications were made from your workplace IP. It frightens me to think that you have gainful employment in such an important vocation given your reckless and actionable behaviour. 

I have of course retained time and date stamped copies of all your posts here including your posting of my private email address and further financial information that goes to your coercive attempt to extract monies from me. Copies of these posts will be provided to your employer forming amongst other things, the substantive and material component of my complaint regarding your actions and behaviour. 

You will remain blocked from contacting me further across all platforms, and I note that any and all contacts you do chose to make will be retained. I am sorry it has had to come to this, but as an artisan I cannot afford the financial cost of behaviour such as yours. 

I don't honestly know how you could think for even a second, that the outcome here would rest in your favour.

I nearly just fell off my chair.. .Contacting his employer!?!? Are you kidding me? The two of you made an agreement, Chris performed his end, you did not. Chris asked for his money back, you ignored. We aren't talking about $20 here, it was a significant amount of cash he paid you as a trusted business owner using PayPal F&F. You took advantage of his trust. If you feel you have been extorted why don't you post some proof that you issued him a full refund before all this hoopla? There's only one person being transparent here and based on the evidence his frustration has complete merit. I personally wouldn't have been as patient as he was. This is becoming comical how delusional you are. Perhaps you need to follow Chris' suggestion and seek some professional help.

Signs011

1 1,073
 01-19-2019, 04:37 AM
#39
User Info
That’s a terrible story and I truly am sorry for not being able to get this resolved, when someone approaches me on one of the shaving forums I am on and wants to purchase an item from me I offer them the option of normal PP for products and services or FF for a small discount and only ever had one issue where the item was lost and it was paid for using FF and in that case I took the buyers side and refunded the $$$

7 1,716
 01-19-2019, 04:59 AM
#40
  • NJDJ
  • Senior Member
  • New Jersey
User Info
(01-19-2019, 04:10 AM)zipper Wrote:
(01-19-2019, 04:02 AM)happydaze Wrote:
(01-18-2019, 08:21 PM)todras Wrote: You have now been paid $1,710 AUD and I am substantially out of pocket. 

I don't easily succumb to blackmail and threats and frankly it was my fault for presuming you would be of a much higher character. I did not however suspect that you would engage in such revolting, dishonest and fraudulent behaviour.

I will be contacting your employer in the new week, noting that several of your orders and communications were made from your workplace IP. It frightens me to think that you have gainful employment in such an important vocation given your reckless and actionable behaviour. 

I have of course retained time and date stamped copies of all your posts here including your posting of my private email address and further financial information that goes to your coercive attempt to extract monies from me. Copies of these posts will be provided to your employer forming amongst other things, the substantive and material component of my complaint regarding your actions and behaviour. 

You will remain blocked from contacting me further across all platforms, and I note that any and all contacts you do chose to make will be retained. I am sorry it has had to come to this, but as an artisan I cannot afford the financial cost of behaviour such as yours. 

I don't honestly know how you could think for even a second, that the outcome here would rest in your favour.

I nearly just fell off my chair.. .Contacting his employer!?!? Are you kidding me? The two of you made an agreement, Chris performed his end, you did not. Chris asked for his money back, you ignored. We aren't talking about $20 here, it was a significant amount of cash he paid you as a trusted business owner using PayPal F&F. You took advantage of his trust. If you feel you have been extorted why don't you post some proof that you issued him a full refund before all this hoopla? There's only one person being transparent here and based on the evidence his frustration has complete merit. I personally wouldn't have been as patient as he was. This is becoming comical how delusional you are. Perhaps you need to follow Chris' suggestion and seek some professional help.

Signs011

Yes, Dan's approach is beyond unbelievable.  The whole employer thing is next level BS and a shocking overstep.

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