03-16-2019, 02:14 PM
#1
  • Shaun
  • Senior Member
  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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(See update in my post of 27 March, Sydney time, below.)

I have a question for readers. Is this  a 2-band, or a 3-band? I'm leaning toward 2, even though there is a line of lighter hair at the base of the knot.

The loft is lop-sided, clearly, but I'm pretty sure it's only because it had been leaning against something for years.

This 1960s mint and unused "Haute Montagne" gem is on its way to me from London. I have never seen the type of lettering as shown on its handle. Decal, yes. 

I am uncertain as to the size. The seller tells me it measures 90mm in total (update: 95mm now that I've measured it myself) and has a '4' stamped on the base (update: just a smudge that looked like a 4, but otherwise nothing).

[Image: xxuPwXS.jpg]

[Image: jbOrm4g.jpg]

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 03-16-2019, 02:19 PM
#2
  • garyg
  • Senior Member
  • Great Lakes
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Very pretty - hope it survives transportation .. I'd vote 2 band, knowing that the badger can't put me to the lie

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 03-16-2019, 02:53 PM
#3
  • Shaun
  • Senior Member
  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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(03-16-2019, 02:19 PM)garyg Wrote: Very pretty - hope it survives transportation .. I'd vote 2 band, knowing that the badger can't put me to the lie

Hmm. Maybe I should set up a little survey? Brilliant, Shaun Smile

If only I could remember how Smile

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 03-16-2019, 04:17 PM
#4
  • Barrylu
  • Senior Member
  • Portland OR
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It is as much a two band as Plisson ever gets

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 03-16-2019, 05:14 PM
#5
  • Shaun
  • Senior Member
  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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(03-16-2019, 04:17 PM)Barrylu Wrote: It is as much a two band as Plisson ever gets

I have heard it said that Plisson once considered 2-band inferior to three. It would seem odd if that were true. Why would they then bother using HMW? Surely Plisson made brushes to suit customer tastes? It would make perfect sense to me to make a smaller brush like this in 2-band because of the relatively narrow knot (which, in this case, I will need to measure) and to balance things, the knot would also need to be a little higher than 3-band. Uncertain.

Thoughts?

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 03-16-2019, 07:52 PM
#6
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I vote for 2 band.  Plissons have high lofts.  If that brush had the lower lower loft typical of many other brushes, there would be no doubt it was a 2 band.

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 03-17-2019, 01:10 AM
#7
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 03-17-2019, 06:03 AM
#8
  • Bony
  • Active Member
  • New York , USA
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Great find Shaun. For me also looks like two band. This brush is probably more than 20 years old and as far as I know there was very limited numbers in the small sizes 12&14 in 2 band ever produced . Enjoy!

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 03-17-2019, 11:38 AM
#9
  • Shaun
  • Senior Member
  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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Thank you, Boyan, yes, seems there is agreement on 2-band. The brush is certainly more than 20 years old. Closer to 55. Wink

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 03-18-2019, 05:49 AM
#10
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Nice brush! Definitely a two band.

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 03-18-2019, 01:27 PM
#11
  • blzrfn
  • Butterscotch Bandit
  • Vancouver USA
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I believe it is a regular HMW brush, but due to the small size the knot is shorter lofted than the more typical models.  I have owned a couple of size 6 Plissons and they are quite delightful.  Mine both had a 17mm knot with a 47mm loft.  I'm also not certain that Plisson even distinguished two-band hair options until this century, but you should check with them directly for clarification.

[Image: eFKzueE.jpg]Size 6 on the left, Size 22 and 14 for comparison.

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 03-18-2019, 03:27 PM
#12
  • Shaun
  • Senior Member
  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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(03-18-2019, 01:27 PM)blzrfn Wrote: I believe it is a regular HMW brush, but due to the small size the knot is shorter lofted than the more typical models.  I have owned a couple of size 6 Plissons and they are quite delightful.  Mine both had a 17mm knot with a 47mm loft.  I'm also not certain that Plisson even distinguished two-band hair options until this century, but you should check with them directly for clarification.

Interesting observations, Dave. I’ll check the dimensions out when I can. Personally, I have no particular preference for banding with this little brush, but the issue of loft insertion depth does question the veracity of a purely visual aesthetic assessment. After all, banding should be more about qualities other than looks - face feel, firmness, etc. True.
I have the feeling this brush might be smaller than we’re assuming, but we shall see!

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 03-26-2019, 11:22 PM
#13
  • Shaun
  • Senior Member
  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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Le brush has arrived, it's been washed, and it's better than I'd even hoped for! Look how stunningly white the tips are! They almost glow!

Size? You tell me; dimensions specified below. But first, I am claiming that this is indeed a (rare) 2-Band HMW, not to refute Dave (above) but because it BEHAVES like a 2-Band: the loft is firm, upright...and very different in feel to a similar Plisson I have in 3-Band HMW that is far less rigid. Also, this brush is bigger that I thought it would be, so hasn't a lot to do with deeper insertion into the handle that buries the lower band away. I am happy to be corrected on this.

Dimensions:

Knot: 22mm
Handle: 45mm
Loft: 50mm
Overall height: 95mm

So what size is that? The knot makes it size 12/14. The loft: size 8. Overall height: 8 to 10... On average, then, let's call it a ...Size 11? 

What I think this reflects is that these amazing vintage brushes just weren't made to the same specifications as the more recent models. In any case, I'd welcome ideas, thoughts and comparison pictures. 


[Image: tlHUl7Z.jpg]

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 03-27-2019, 04:17 AM
#14
  • Bony
  • Active Member
  • New York , USA
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Shaun one thing is for sure: you holding amazing Plisson that doesn't exist anymore in the New World. Just enjoy it!

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 03-27-2019, 11:46 AM
#15
  • Shaun
  • Senior Member
  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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(03-27-2019, 04:17 AM)Bony Wrote: Shaun one thing is for sure: you holding amazing Plisson that doesn't exist anymore in the New World. Just enjoy it!

Yes, I shall. The pleasure in having such objects in one's possession comes in their use, not just in marvelling at their looks, components, and their history of production. 

My only regret about Plisson is the determined non-correpondence on the part of the company itself. Compare it to management at Simpson, for example, who engage, correspond and take pleasure in such transactions. 

Plisson? Very 'haute', to say the least...

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 03-27-2019, 11:49 AM
#16
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Shaun, that knot looks much better than what I would have expected based on the first photo.

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 03-27-2019, 12:18 PM
#17
  • Shaun
  • Senior Member
  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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(03-27-2019, 11:49 AM)TheLegalRazor Wrote: Shaun, that knot looks much better than what I would have expected based on the first photo.

Indeed, yes. It bloomed beautifully, too. I must take a snap of it next to the other vintage HMW just so you can see how white the tips are. I didn’t quite capture this in the above photo. Are you a Plisson user yourself, Ricardo?

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 03-27-2019, 12:55 PM
#18
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Where do you find all these hidden gems Shaun?

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 03-27-2019, 01:45 PM
#19
  • Shaun
  • Senior Member
  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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(03-27-2019, 12:55 PM)bennett Wrote: Where do you find all these hidden gems Shaun?

I hunt them down, and sometimes just chance upon them. It requires routine, systematic checking. Part of my advantage is being located in Australia where the popularity of wet shaving is nowhere near as pronounced as it is in the USA or the UK. I find stuff in junk stalls, too, places like that. Having said that, this brush was found in the UK. The razors and other items this brush was found with date to the late 50s, early 1960s, which assists with estimating the vintage. Sometimes items are not called by the right name, either, so if you were to search "Plisson", say, on the net, you would likely find one at some point, but sellers often don't finely detail what the item is, actually. And they wouldn't, unless they were themselves collectors. In that case, you just have to trawl through pages of 'shaving brush' items. Sometimes you just have luck. Maybe I'm just lucky?

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 03-27-2019, 01:55 PM
#20
  • Shaun
  • Senior Member
  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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Below is another Plisson in HMW (with an exceedingly rare chestnut brown Plexi handle). Compare the colour of the 3-band tips to the Plisson in the above photos. Below, they look positively beige by comparison. Who knows why. Perhaps the original owner of this Plexi was a smoker? Perhaps it was just another source of hair.... The loft below is not at all floppy, but not as rigid and firm as the Plisson above. 


[Image: 9aarUru.jpg]

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