03-19-2019, 03:03 AM
#21
  • ischiapp
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  • Forio d'Ischia, Naples, Italy
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(03-19-2019, 01:12 AM)nikos.a Wrote: Shaving is not science.
I respectfully disagree.

All the adjustable, even Rockwell ... and Karve with multiple plates, have the same limit.
Efficient geometry is the result of a difficult balance.
By modifying only one parameter (gap) equilibrium cannot be maintained.

The result can be quite good, and also comfortable.
But that's another story !!

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 03-19-2019, 05:03 AM
#22
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(03-18-2019, 06:01 PM)garyg Wrote:
(03-18-2019, 05:23 PM)primotenore Wrote: I know this is blasphemy to some, but I think adjustables are a gimmick. Just my opinion. 

And the straight razor guys claim the GEM lather catchers were gimmicks!

I hear you. I have shaved with a Fatboy for over 5 years. Still own it. Used a Progress for 4 years. That one got sold. Been through all of the settings. 1-9. Since I am a “ride the cap” shaver, the distance below the blade has zero effect on my shave. Hence...my opinion.

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 03-19-2019, 05:46 AM
#23
  • nikos.a
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  • Athens, Greece
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(03-19-2019, 03:03 AM)ischiapp Wrote:
(03-19-2019, 01:12 AM)nikos.a Wrote: Shaving is not science.
I respectfully disagree.

All the adjustable, even Rockwell ... and Karve with multiple plates, have the same limit.
Efficient geometry is the result of a difficult balance.
By modifying only one parameter (gap) equilibrium cannot be maintained.

The result can be quite good, and also comfortable.
But that's another story !!
Shaving is definitely not science in my book, but we agree to disagree on that.

Previous generations just used razors to shave. Didn't pay much attention to what you say (I don't understand your point very well though).

Slim was a best selling razor for Gillette. It's one of the razors that I find every time I visit flea markets and antique shops. There are dozens if not hunderds of them on Ebay.

I think it's a well balanced razor.

Rockwell 6s is a perfectly balanced razor. I never cared about "blade rigidity". The razors I've tried hold the blade pretty well.

Using just one setting works great too.

I just don't get your point, sorry.

The higher the setting, the more aggressive the razor. Modifying the gap is great, as long as the razor has a perfect head geometry (a YMMV thing) and gives you great shaves. Easy.

I'd recommend an adjustable to pretty much everyone. Slim is a must-have vintage option, Rockwell 6s is a razor system that gives you six options and it's a must-have too. Have you wondered why the Futur clone is a best seller? Not just because of the price, that's for sure. There are other cheap razors from China that don't sell that well. It's a very affordable razor that gives you options. This is something people like. Having options saves you money.

If you think that adjustables are pointless, there are other people who think that are pretty useful. To each their own. But still can't get all this fuss.

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 03-19-2019, 07:43 AM
#24
  • ischiapp
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  • Forio d'Ischia, Naples, Italy
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(03-19-2019, 05:46 AM)nikos.a Wrote: Previous generations just used razors to shave. Didn't pay much attention to what you say (I don't understand your point very well though).
Science is behind every product.
You know it or not.

Previous generations had not this knowledge.
Today we have, easily available on internet.

You can shave with (almost) everything has an edge.
But, some ways are more efficient than others.

Short way is easy, and most people go for it.
Studying is a long way, and this will lead to a full control ... the few of them.
That's my point.

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 03-19-2019, 08:21 AM
#25
  • nikos.a
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(03-19-2019, 07:43 AM)ischiapp Wrote:
(03-19-2019, 05:46 AM)nikos.a Wrote: Previous generations just used razors to shave. Didn't pay much attention to what you say (I don't understand your point very well though).
Science is behind every product.
You know it or not.

Previous generations had not this knowledge.
Today we have, easily available on internet.

You can shave with (almost) everything has an edge.
But, some ways are more efficient than others.

Short way is easy, and most people go for it.
Studying is a long way, and this will lead to a full control ... the few of them.
That's my point.

I said shaving, the act of shaving. Yes, this is not science. Every day I see people with clean shaven faces who know nothing about all these things we discuss here. The result is the same.

Also, there's some difference between science and knowledge.

What's efficient or not is a bit subjective. If you believe that adjustables are inefficient for some reasons, there are many others who disagree on that. What can you do about it. Certainly not impose your ideas.

Anyway.

I'm pretty sure there are newbies among us. No need to overcomplicate things. We use to exaggerate but there's no point in doing that.

Like I said. You like a razor? Keep it. Not like it? Get rid of it. Make you life easier.

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 03-20-2019, 05:05 AM
#26
  • Nero
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(03-18-2019, 06:58 PM)pbrmhl Wrote: I only used the #6 plate before giving my Rockwell system to my older son. The other five plates were a waste for me, but he's been trying them all. Karve is awesome because you only have to buy one plate, and then adjust up or down by buying additional plates, and selling the old ones. ATT is similar, but fewer choices.

Sorry, but I don't understand
... you would rather buy one plate at a time (for over $100 for handle and one plate) than get all options at once (for $100 and free shipping)?

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 03-20-2019, 05:27 AM
#27
  • nikos.a
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  • Athens, Greece
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Also, Karve is brass made not ss.

The price of the Rockwell 6S is a steal.

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 03-20-2019, 11:48 AM
#28
  • Tonality
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When I first saw this thread pop up I was offended, I love my Fatboy, it has been my gold standard. However I've taken a few days to reflect and I think I agree with many views in this thread. Adjustable is really not necessary, though I would not go so far as to call it a gimmick. It's certainly convenient to bump it up to a 9 to take down the first pass after multiple days of growth, then toning it back down for the remainder of the shave. But for a majority of shaves, I didn't touch the dial and kept it at a steady 3.

In my renewed exploration into razors these past few months, I'm noticing I really do just fine with a standard razor. I might even prefer it over an adjustable! Time will tell if those thoughts stay true, or if I go back to the Fatboy.

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 03-20-2019, 12:54 PM
#29
  • ischiapp
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  • Forio d'Ischia, Naples, Italy
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Sorry, I don't want offend.
Just my experience.
Most people, as Nick pointed, go for the easy way.

Maybe It's my skin, with some medical issues.
Maybe It's my job, as pharmacist on a little town I work a lot with dermatology.
Maybe It's my character, I love efficiency.

I understand.
To find my perfect shaver, now It's about twenty years that I change and refine my choice.
Had and sold hundreds of razors.
All different systems of shaving.
I'm not an average kind of wetshaving aficionado.
I know.

But I'm sure about It.
It's not easy, but It's possible to find our best option.
It's just a matter of knowledge and perseverance.

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 03-21-2019, 12:42 AM
#30
  • nikos.a
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  • Athens, Greece
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(03-20-2019, 12:54 PM)ischiapp Wrote: Sorry, I don't want offend.
Just my experience.
Most people, as Nick pointed, go for the easy way.

Maybe It's my skin, with some medical issues.
Maybe It's my job, as pharmacist on a little town I work a lot with dermatology.
Maybe It's my character, I love efficiency.

I understand.
To find my perfect shaver, now It's about twenty years that I change and refine my choice.
Had and sold hundreds of razors.
All different systems of shaving.
I'm not an average kind of wetshaving aficionado.
I know.

But I'm sure about It.
It's not easy, but It's possible to find our best option.
It's just a matter of knowledge and perseverance.
I wasn't offended and I hope I didn't offend you. I often enjoy an intense dialogue as long as there are logical arguments. I believe that both parties have always something to learn from a discussion.

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 03-21-2019, 06:14 AM
#31
  • RyznRio
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  • Connecticut
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when I started out wet shaving a few months ago, I bought a Qshave Futur and Cremo. The Qshave was cheap, looked cool and I liked the idea of being able to adjust it since I had no idea how my skin and beard would manage wet shaving. Cremo didnt need a brush as it doesnt lather but it is very slick. 

I liked the experience but my technique and my razor needed work. TSN members recommended I shave with the same hardware and software for a month. I chose a vintage gillette tech with an Astra SP used for 1 shave, a white tip badger brush and wholly kaw dark vetiver. that was the best advice and my technique sorted out quickly without the confusion of trying the latest and greatest.

The key to adjustables (dials) and changeables (plates) is that you get the opportunity to modify the experience on the fly. 

It soothes the beginners mind to have choices. As he doesnt know what to expect or what he wants from a shave. however it was removing all variables that enabled me to confidently achieve a DFS. so yes the adjustable is a bit gimmicky as it really doesnt help a beginner learn good technique because the gap will change with rookie mistake irritation and nicks and the learning process must start again.

It soothes the experts mind to be able (out of stock notwithstanding) to fine tune the experience as he knows exactly what he wants from a shave, once you find your preferred plate and blade combo, how often will you change that combo?

The idea that one razor is better than another is a bit absurd, better for whom must be qualified to have that discussion and so YMMV was created. and the shavers saw it was good.

the luxury materials like Ti and SS don't necessarily make a better razor but make a razor that will exist on the earth for a few thousand years with geometry intact. Nice! but at 65 and without heirs the added expense makes no sense. YMMV 

so I chose a 6C over the 6S, if I am still wet shaving at 95 I may have to throw away my 6C, BooHoo. I hope that is my biggest concern at the time.

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 03-21-2019, 08:08 AM
#32
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I appreciate that people have different opinions, but as a recent convert to wet shaving after MANY years with a cartridge, I appreciated trying a futur to get a sense of whether I prefer mild vs aggressive razors - I don't have that futur any longer, but it gave me a sense of the kinds of razors and plates to look for...

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 03-22-2019, 11:32 AM
#33
  • chazt
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  • Queens, NY
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(03-21-2019, 08:08 AM)IanG153 Wrote: I appreciate that people have different opinions, but as a recent convert to wet shaving after MANY years with a cartridge, I appreciated trying a futur to get a sense of whether I prefer mild vs aggressive razors - I don't have that futur any longer, but it gave me a sense of the kinds of razors and plates to look for...

This is a good way to look at the question. What did you determine?

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 03-22-2019, 01:51 PM
#34
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Hi Charlie - thanks for asking :-)
I learned that I prefer mild razors or plates - I have a PILS 101NL that doesn't even feel like I'm using a blade - also have liked the Feather AS-D2. The Rex above 4 is too aggressive for me, even with 2-3 days' growth. I have a Blackbird and Vector than I'm trying (WAY too many razors!), but I'm starting to learn the differences among razors in aggressiveness - so the futur was helpful in narrowing down my experimenting to milder razors...
Ian

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 03-22-2019, 02:02 PM
#35
  • ischiapp
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Just to point out the keystone of the topic.
(03-18-2019, 10:41 AM)ischiapp Wrote: I find it much more useful to concentrate one's efforts on a single razor, possibly balanced, for the time necessary (a few dozen shaves, better every day) to refine the technique and consistently achieve a good result.

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 05-21-2019, 05:12 PM
#36
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But over time, you understand that performance is related to geometry.

As the gap increases the arch should increase, and since it is impossible for now what increases is the exposure ... then the positive asset, that is the sensation (feedback) of the blade on the skin.


There's theory and then there's practice.  For me, adjustable razors do the job properly.  Different parts of my face, require different levels of aggression.  For me, fixed head razors are "one trick ponies."  With a Merkur Progress or Future, I can get a BBS shave every time out.  That isn't the case with any fixed head razor that I've ever used.  

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 05-22-2019, 04:50 AM
#37
  • DayMan
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I’m not a big fan of adjustable razors because there are more parts that can break. I do have a Rex though. I couldn’t resist the group buy. I found the setting I like and keep it there, so I use it like a fixed razor. I only tried 4, 4.5, 5, and all the way up. I don’t think it would have been good for someone new to DE razors though. There are too many variables, in my opinion.

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 05-22-2019, 06:21 AM
#38
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I don't currently have any adjustable DE's, but in the past I had good results from a Fatboy and a Slim.  With both of those razors, once I found a setting I liked I never changed it. 

I often use a straight razor, which is the ultimate adjustable.

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 05-22-2019, 10:32 AM
#39
  • Garb
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After I played around with some of the milder razors I decided  to start with the Mergress and gradually moved the settings around till I found a nice shave around the 4-5 setting. It's my only shaver now and although would like to try another more classy designer shaver this one works great for me now.

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 05-22-2019, 11:22 AM
#40
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In late 2016, after 2-3 years of wet shaving, I bought a used Merkur Progress for $45. At that time I THOUGHT I wanted/needed a fairly 'mild' razor. I used the Progress for a week of shaves, gradually increasing the gap. I found out that I actually preferred a LARGER gap and more 'aggressive' razor for my rather tough beard. SO, I learned a valuable lesson or bit of information!
I have not used the Progress since that initial week, but still have the razor since it was (too me) a rather small investment (I usually do NOT keep razors that I don't use, especially expensive ones). I have tried a couple of other adjustable razors (Gillette Slim), but much prefer to get a standard DE razor, especially if I can get different gaps and/or OC, SB, DC options for it. THAT is also my preferred 'adjustment method'. I also like to 'mix it up' using different Base Plates and also handles to 'tailor' my shave, depending on other factors, such as: how many days growth, how much time I have, and other factors.

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