04-18-2019, 06:02 AM
#1
  • nikos.a
  • Senior Member
  • Athens, Greece
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Some expensive razors are probably the worst investments.


You don't really care if your cheap zamak razors don't hold their value. Yes, they don't, but you don't lose much money.
But if this happens with razors that cost you a few hundreds euros/dollars, it's a different story. You keep them for a few months, use them every now and then, have them in perfect condition, and a day comes that you decide to sell them for x,y,z reasons. Such examples are the Rex, ATT, Mongoose, OneBlade, Timeless etc.
A new OneBlade Genesis costs $399 if I make no mistake. You won't sell them for more than $250, no matter the condition.
Mongooses are going for $100-120 and new cost $180. I'm referring to the ss model. That's a massive loss.
I've seen members asking less than $190 for an Ambassador in practically new condition and they can't get rid of them.
Isn't it amazing? We, the sellers, certainly have a fair share of responsibility for this.

The only expensive razors that hold their value are those that are not readily available (Wolfman is a very good example). Sometimes they are worth even more if they're special models. And I'm not necessarily talking about discontinued products like the BBS-1 or the Tradere. These will always gain in value. Even current models, the WR1 and WR2, hold their value and you really don't have to worry if you don't like them or regret buying them a year after the purchase. You will easily sell them within a few hours at no loss.

It surely is the market that drives the prices, this is the world we live in.
However, if a high-end item loses 35+% of its value within a few months, trying your luck with discontinued and vintage razors might be a better idea if you don't want to lose so much from a purchase that didn't go as you thought/wished.

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 04-18-2019, 06:05 AM
#2
  • chamm
  • Expert on nothing
  • Central Ohio
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It's for this reason that I purchase almost all of my razors on the secondary market. From what I've observed, most of the depreciation happens between new and used. Once it's taken that initial loss, it typically doesn't lose much more value unless it's damaged.

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 04-18-2019, 07:13 AM
#3
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It's like buying a new car... the second you take it off the lot, the value plummets.

I've never bought a razor as an investment in anything more than a nice shave... if I have to downsize and decide to sell (as opposed to PIFing), I'll be happy if I find a buyer who'll enjoy the razor as a razor Smile

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 04-18-2019, 07:16 AM
#4
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(04-18-2019, 07:13 AM)WegianWarrior Wrote: It's like buying a new car... the second you take it off the lot, the value plummets.

I've never bought a razor as an investment in anything more than a nice shave... if I have to downsize and decide to sell (as opposed to PIFing), I'll be happy if I find a buyer who'll enjoy the razor as a razor Smile
Signs011

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 04-18-2019, 07:42 AM
#5
  • nikos.a
  • Senior Member
  • Athens, Greece
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Soooo, if you spend $200+ on a razor, you don't invest your money somewhere, hoping you'll get better shaves for example. You just throw your money away, without caring about how this will get your life better, if the money you invested in having better shaves were worth it, waiting to lose a fair amount the moment you decide to sell the razor. Oook.

Everything is an investment. If it makes your life easier, better, more enjoyable, it's some kind of investment. You invested your money somewhere. And there's an opportunity cost. Example: Oh man, I should have bought the other razor, but now I have less money available. That's a bummer.

That is my opinion and I thought I'd start a thread. If you don't understand the thread or think there was no point in starting one, I can't change your opinion as you can't change mine. We can all share opinions and thoughts, this is the purpose of the forums, but at least read the OP and get my point.


Edit: I'm not referring to my friend Hans. I know I will read many posts about the use of the word "investment", so I wanted to clarify a few things, my way of thinking. If you are about to make a post about how wrong the use of this word was, just read again this post!

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 04-18-2019, 08:53 AM
#6
  • SCOV
  • Senior Member
  • Minnesota
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The only thing certain in life is Death and Taxes (possibly a poor quote around Easter but really good on April 15 tax day)
Depreciation is only 99% certain.  
Gain on investments is 99% uncertain

I buy a razor for enjoyment, improve quality of life (good start to day), long term value and short term value.  Long term value is "will I still be using the razor in 5 years".  Short term value is depreciation of <$50 should the razor not meet my expectations or something better comes along.

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 04-18-2019, 11:04 AM
#7
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(04-18-2019, 07:13 AM)WegianWarrior Wrote: It's like buying a new car... the second you take it off the lot, the value plummets.

Yes, but it also has to do with the nature of luxury or premium products. If you are willing and able to pay, say, $400 for a razor then you are not going to be much interested in saving 30 bucks. In almost every case you will think it's worth it to get exactly the model you want, the finish you want or just the feeling of a brand new product. You don't buy a product like that because it's objectively more effective, you buy it for the feeling of luxury/exclusiveness/whatever. You are paying for experience not performance. In other words, customers of 400 bucks razors are not particularly price sensitive. 

So whoever sells his $400 razor will have to lower the price enough to attract a different group of customers, namely those who are price sensitive ("Hi, mom!") and therefore not willing or able to pay $400 for a razor. And that means a substantial reduction in price, i.e. $250 or whatever.

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 04-18-2019, 11:46 AM
#8
  • nikos.a
  • Senior Member
  • Athens, Greece
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The moment someone sells his $400 razor for $250, he sets a new price on the secondary market. That is a huge loss, especially if the item is just a few months old and in new condition.

What always surprised is that while sellers make such great offers, we've seen many of them, there are also buyers who ask for an even better price, expecting from the seller to depreciate his item even more. How about that?

Price sensitivity is another important factor and thank you Steve for bringing it into our attention.

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 04-18-2019, 01:08 PM
#9
  • RyznRio
  • Active Member
  • Connecticut
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I have only been shaving since February 2019. Before that a full beard. I have 7 razors 6 DE and 1 SE. most are vintage.
I have been tempted to buy an "expensive" high end razor. I could afford it, yet i resist. I think that Nikos has expressed the point in a logical way that I was feeling emotionally. I dont see the value as I am old enough now not to care how long a razor will last so the extra expense doesnt appeal to me. if titanium shaved better than brass or zamak then I could see it but I would rather go to Aruba for a couple of weeks than have 7 expensive razors and 4 expensive brushes and...

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 04-18-2019, 02:09 PM
#10
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Razors have only as much value as someone is willing to pay, be they Wolfmans, vintage Gillettes or some other titanium product. I also think that prices will ebb and flow. We seem to be in a down market. 3 years ago, a 1955 Red Tip w/case would fetch a real sum...no longer. I do agree that some razors will never retain their retail price. ATT is one of them, One Blade is definitely another.

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 04-18-2019, 03:36 PM
#11
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(04-18-2019, 11:46 AM)nikos.a Wrote: The moment someone sells his $400 razor for $250, he sets a new price on the secondary market. That is a huge loss, especially if the item is just a few months old and in new condition.

With all respect, I do not think this is true. See my previous post for how I think this works (price sensitivity).

If there are customers willing to pay $350 for a $400 (new) razor then I cannot see how one seller dropping the price to $250 for one razor would "set a new price on the market". That's not how it works. If there were people out there willing to pay $350 before he did so, they would not suddenly change their minds about that. They would just say "damn, that guy got lucky" but they would still be willing to pay $350.

Steve

EDIT: obviously it would change the price if someone suddenly flooded the market with 100 razors for $250, but that's not what I think we are talking about above.

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 04-18-2019, 05:27 PM
#12
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It’s primarily a supply side issue. Years ago, I know this is hard to believe, but there were no modern razors available except Merkur, EJ, and Muhle. The first artisan in the scene was Weber from what I can recall and frankly to be honest they weren’t very well made or finished in comparison to current offerings but scarcity and low supply did and still does drive resale.

Same thing goes for brushes, there were no artisans. Resale on razors and brushes were always quite good. In recent years resale for razors and brushes has plummeted.

The upside of plummeting resale is the increase in excellent choices of new high end razors and brushes from new manufacturers and artisans.

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 04-18-2019, 10:00 PM
#13
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I think the most money is lost on regular production equipment that is still being manufactured.
Razors like Timeless, Blackbird.

Unobtainium or relative unobtainium stand a better chance of recouping your money 100%.

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 04-19-2019, 11:07 AM
#14
  • nikos.a
  • Senior Member
  • Athens, Greece
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(04-18-2019, 03:36 PM)RazorSteve Wrote:
(04-18-2019, 11:46 AM)nikos.a Wrote: The moment someone sells his $400 razor for $250, he sets a new price on the secondary market. That is a huge loss, especially if the item is just a few months old and in new condition.

With all respect, I do not think this is true. See my previous post for how I think this works (price sensitivity).

If there are customers willing to pay $350 for a $400 (new) razor then I cannot see how one seller dropping the price to $250 for one razor would "set a new price on the market". That's not how it works. If there were people out there willing to pay $350 before he did so, they would not suddenly change their minds about that. They would just say "damn, that guy got lucky" but they would still be willing to pay $350.

Steve

EDIT: obviously it would change the price if someone suddenly flooded the market with 100 razors for $250, but that's not what I think we are talking about above.
It is. But let me explain what exactly I meant to say.

It's obvious that I'm referring to the OneBlade. A long time ago, when they introduced the v2 or Genesis model (to make it almost impossible to accept the GEM blades), they priced it at $399. This price was $100 more than the previous model price or 33% more if you prefer.
People didn't like this, so they offered a promo and continue to offer one I think from time to time to boost the sales. This promo depreciated their own product. The person, who got one after that, had to offer his razor at a massive loss, IF he wanted to get rid of it. I've seen some going for $220 or even less. And to simplify it a bit, someone started offering it at $250 and he did set a price on the secondary market, as people have seen this listing and expect the same price from other sellers as well or they won't buy it. This is something that happens all the time.

Another good example is the Rex Ambassador. The owner of RE started a group-buy on another forum to boost his sales. Another promo here we have... what he also did was to depreciate his product. The price was $180 if I make no mistake. This made clear to everyone that $250 was too much for this razor, especially if some acquired one at almost 30% off. A number of people who got one didn't like the razor. They started asking what it cost them. Now, if you sell one at $200, consider yourself lucky.

Members/buyers know what the items they're interested in are going for. And wait for this price, unless they're newbies.

Both the makers and the sellers on the secondary market have a responsibility on this. My first statement didn't say much, but I believe now you undestand what I meant by saying that.

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 04-19-2019, 11:54 AM
#15
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(04-18-2019, 07:13 AM)WegianWarrior Wrote: It's like buying a new car... the second you take it off the lot, the value plummets.

Exactly my thoughts.  It's worse with a $30k car, yet the majority of people still insist on buying (more likely financing) them.  Maybe I should start a razor financing company...

(04-18-2019, 11:04 AM)RazorSteve Wrote:
(04-18-2019, 07:13 AM)WegianWarrior Wrote: It's like buying a new car... the second you take it off the lot, the value plummets.

Yes, but it also has to do with the nature of luxury or premium products. If you are willing and able to pay, say, $400 for a razor then you are not going to be much interested in saving 30 bucks. In almost every case you will think it's worth it to get exactly the model you want, the finish you want or just the feeling of a brand new product. You don't buy a product like that because it's objectively more effective, you buy it for the feeling of luxury/exclusiveness/whatever. You are paying for experience not performance. In other words, customers of 400 bucks razors are not particularly price sensitive. 

Lot of truth here as well.

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 04-19-2019, 12:32 PM
#16
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(04-18-2019, 10:00 PM)Tester28 Wrote: I think the most money is lost on regular production equipment that is still being manufactured.
Razors like Timeless, Blackbird.

Unobtainium or relative unobtainium stand a better chance of recouping your money 100%.
Easy on the Blackbird my friend. Those seem to maintain their value pretty well. I put a polished set with both handles and both plates on a BST for $260...not a single bite. I put it on the bay and it sold above MSRP.

Edit. I totally agree with you on Timeless. It is one of the worst.



Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

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 04-19-2019, 12:37 PM
#17
  • nikos.a
  • Senior Member
  • Athens, Greece
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(04-19-2019, 12:32 PM)LOOT Wrote:
(04-18-2019, 10:00 PM)Tester28 Wrote: I think the most money is lost on regular production equipment that is still being manufactured.
Razors like Timeless, Blackbird.

Unobtainium or relative unobtainium stand a better chance of recouping your money 100%.
Easy on the Blackbird my friend. Those seem to maintain their value pretty well. I put a polished set with both handles and both plates on a BST for $260...not a single bite. I put it on the bay and it sold above MSRP.

Edit. I totally agree with you on Timeless. It is one of the worst.



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And you just confirmed one of my points. There are great offers in most forum BST sections, but still you'd think you have to depreciate your items even more if you want to have a chance to sell them...

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 04-20-2019, 05:25 AM
#18
  • ischiapp
  • Senior Member
  • Forio d'Ischia, Naples, Italy
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One of the multiples reasons I prefer more efficient metals, as 7075 Aluminium alloy.

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 04-20-2019, 06:22 AM
#19
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I'd like to own nice razors AND go to Aruba.
I think, imho, this thread is pointing to is consumer behavior. And perhaps, imho, this hobby of ours is "bi-modal" essentially 2 groups who are satisfied by prices. Aren't there guys who rent expensive boats to go deep sea fishing and yet some guys are quite satisfied in a canoe on a lake or on a bridge over a pond?
Economists please chime in. If I buy a car to last 10 years and it costs me $5 a day to own, that is my "rate"; another person may think $2 is tops, another maybe $35 is OK.

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 04-20-2019, 11:13 AM
#20
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For me it's the journey and not the destination... yes, I really enjoy my Asylum Evolution, but I also really enjoy my vintage Gillette Single Ring I scored on a flea market. Both great razors, and my enjoyment would be less if I didn't own them - they are an investment in my mental health, not in my financial future Tongue

As a side-note, I would have picked a different alloy than 7075; while some people see "aerospace alloy" and are impressed, I see average machineability at best (and only in it's annealed state), lower corrosion resistance than the 5000-series and the troubling issue of it being work hardened. Good for making highly stressed airframe parts though...

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