05-08-2019, 09:56 AM
#1
User Info
(ModEdit: link to active auction removed per rules. Screen grab added instead, so everyone can see what is being discussed)

Seller advertises this brush as "NEW". In the body of his ad, he states that he did a "test lathering" 
"I lathered in a bowl for test - Very efficient brush building lather in no time."
I wrote him a very cordial letter explaining that new means new and this brush has been lathered and therefore should no longer be advertised as new. 

Indeed, all you have to do is look at the seller's pictures to quickly and easily ascertain that this brush is in NO WAY NOS.

His 
[/font][/size][/color]
response:
"I don't see it to be an issue.
Also - I never hide any detail from my buyers.
I describe everything and everything they need to know is written.
I could "omit" saying I lathered in a bowl, but I don't. It is a fully and honest description of the items as I always do."

So...is it new or is it used?

[Image: mkNMCpu.png]

65 5,226
Reply
 05-08-2019, 10:00 AM
#2
User Info
I would argue that it is used.  A new, unused brush is of increased value to a collector who plans to keep it in that condition.  Even just a test lather will decrease its resale value.

229 13,314
Reply
 05-08-2019, 10:09 AM
#3
User Info
The brush has come in to contact with soap and water and a lather created. He's used it.

35 5,424
Reply
 05-08-2019, 10:10 AM
#4
User Info
Not new, but I'm not sure I would call it used either. It's one of those neither/nor situations.

3 6,297
Reply
 05-08-2019, 10:16 AM
#5
  • chazt
  • Senior Member
  • Queens, NY
User Info
imo it’s like a car. Once you drive it out of the dealership onto the pavement it’s a used car. Like David stated water, soap and lather makes it a used brush.

13 3,418
Reply
 05-08-2019, 10:34 AM
#6
User Info
Used.  If it's been test lathered once, it should be described as lightly used, with an explanation of the single use.

57 9,045
Reply
 05-08-2019, 10:38 AM
#7
  • Agravic
  • Emeritus
  • Pennsylvania, USA
User Info
Based on the label/lettering appearance, it looks like it's been used a lot more than once.

111 19,013
Reply
 05-08-2019, 11:18 AM
#8
  • Garb
  • Active Member
  • Oregon
User Info
Good catch on the label scuffed up. I'd call that mint condition/used for sure. Who cares how it was used it was used.

0 443
Reply
 05-08-2019, 11:57 AM
#9
  • TheMonk
  • Super Moderator
  • Porto, Portugal
User Info
Well, let's see what the wise folk at Cambridge Dictionary say: "used: that has already been put to the purpose it was intended for; not new."

In the seller's opinion, since perhaps the brush wasn't put to the purpose of shaving with, it's not used. In my opinion, it's an used brush, period. And the seller could omit he lathered in a bowl, but any reasonably knowledgeable wetshaver can tell that knot has been used just by quickly looking at it.

26 5,210
Reply
 05-08-2019, 12:24 PM
#10
User Info
As devil’s advocate, aren’t Paladin brushes test lathered before they leave the shop? Are those used too?

11 573
Reply
 05-08-2019, 03:58 PM
#11
  • Bony
  • Active Member
  • New York , USA
User Info
This Plisson is 100 % used and not just for test lathering. At least he is honest to state that the brush is shedding ! The question is who want to buy a shedder ?

11 474
Reply
 05-08-2019, 04:04 PM
#12
  • eengler
  • Administrator
  • South Dakota, USA
User Info
Used with out a doubt.

66 5,437
Reply
 05-08-2019, 04:42 PM
#13
User Info
The seller says "the brush is losing a few hairs."  Is that based on the one alleged test lather, or has the seller inadvertently disclosed that the brush has had some use?

57 9,045
Reply
 05-08-2019, 06:42 PM
#14
User Info
No argument here really.  He took it out of the box and lathered with it.  That makes it used.  It's a black and white issue.  There is no grey when it comes to something being new or used.  It is now used having touched soap and water.  New implies the product is exactly as it was when it left the factory.  This brush is most definitely not exactly the same as it was when it left the factory.  And who knows what the quality of the water or the soap was that the seller used on it.  Also, he says the letters have "worn".  Even if it is 50 years old, the letters won't wear off unless it's been handled a fair amount.  Which also suggests it's been used.  This brush is USED!

2 251
Reply
 05-09-2019, 01:38 AM
#15
User Info
I agree, used is used. If you're concerned someone may be caught out by this seller you could always report the listing to eBay? As I recall there is an option to report items listed with the incorrect condition.

0 94
Reply
 05-09-2019, 04:39 AM
#16
  • Agravic
  • Emeritus
  • Pennsylvania, USA
User Info
(05-08-2019, 12:24 PM)vigilantesd Wrote: As devil’s advocate, aren’t Paladin brushes test lathered before they leave the shop? Are those used too?

Good question.
Technically speaking, such brushes would still be 'new' if unused by the end-user ie customer upon receipt.  In this specific scenario, the test lathering would constitute a form of pre-sale preparation and such.
This could be compared to new cars on the lot that have a few miles on them prior to initial sale.
Practically speaking, it would be more difficult to differentiate them from truly used brushes on a BST listing, I guess.

111 19,013
Reply
 05-09-2019, 12:19 PM
#17
  • Rufus
  • Senior Member
  • Greater Toronto Area
User Info
I collect fountain pens and many dealers/vendors of new pens will tell you that they will test the ink flow and the nib prior to dispatch of a new pen unless instructed by the purchaser not to. This is done as a fountain pen that has met ink (dipped or filled) cannot be described as mint; convention requires reputable dealers/sellers to disclose if the pen has met ink. In this case the seller has disclosed that the brush has met soap/cream so it’s a moot point regarding the description as being New; tacitly the seller is describing it as New Used and I think it would have been misleading if they had described it as New Unused. With the disclosure by the seller that the brush has been lathered they are clearly not trying to deceive.

9 1,088
Reply
 05-09-2019, 01:52 PM
#18
User Info
I think I'm correct in saying any firearm we can buy has been test fired at the factory. Particularly with handguns, as in the USA by law they have to have a spent cartridge case that goes to the buyer, and another that is kept for IDing the handgun later if necessary. A 'new' car will have a certain amount of miles on the odometer since it must be driven on and off a transport, and moved around in the car lot. That said, a shaving brush does not need to be 'test lathered. '

What is the point of wetting a new brush and whipping up a lather if you're not applying it to your face ? It goes without saying that wet boar bristles attached to a handle will create lather. What was the seller trying to prove ? Now if he lathered and applied it to his face he could at least offer up the characteristics of the brush. Scritchy or not, soft tips, good backbone ... makes no sense to me that he did this, and I'd classify it as used for sure.

9 268
Reply
 05-11-2019, 10:39 PM
#19
  • Nero
  • Senior Member
User Info
It's used... but I wish all natural hair brushes came pre-lathered about 50 times to get that stank out.

85 3,688
Reply
Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)