05-25-2019, 10:38 AM
#21
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(05-25-2019, 10:08 AM)Nero Wrote: Thank you, Primo.

I ABSOLUTELY understand that there is much more variety of GREAT music than just Rock.

I LOVE classical, blues, country, and anything else that takes exceptional talent and sounds good to a trained ear.

Back when I was a teenager, MTV had this thing called Save the Music campaign (I believe it was to keep music classes in schools, if memory serves me right).  How ironic, since they're THE ENTITY that KILLED music.

Now, we need a Resurrect the Music campaign.

Video killed the radio star?

Great music is still being made, all over the world, but gets little to no airplay or distribution. Media and record companies is mostly interested in what sells, and what sells seems to be much the same as last year, only dumbed down a bit. Oh, and angrier and more depressed too:
http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/2019051...nd-angrier
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/f...274#d3e449

Popular music - defined as music on the top 100 - have become more atonal, darker, and less happy. But it's important to keep in mind that great music is still out there, if we're willing and able to take the time to find it.

[Image: rsos171274f02.jpg]

As an aside, my preference is for late 70's to mid 90's heavy metal; melody led, understandable lyrics, preferable long songs - but that don't stop me from enjoying anything from classical to rap.

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 05-25-2019, 11:56 AM
#22
  • Nero
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I hear it all the time... "there is still good music, but you need to look for it."

I don't want to.  We never had to 25+ years ago.

And I definitely don't want bad music forced upon me every time I'm out and about... it's everywhere and unavoidable.

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 05-25-2019, 12:16 PM
#23
  • Nero
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(05-25-2019, 09:48 AM)primotenore Wrote:
(05-25-2019, 07:52 AM)Nero Wrote: What's funny about all this is that when we are alluding to "good music", everyone assumed we are talking about Rock in its many forms.
... That's how good that genre was for decades.
As a 30 year Opera Singer, I can tell you I wasn't referring to rock music. But I elaborate on my curt, first response.
Today's "popular" music is generic and cookie-cutter, with unintelligible lyrics (the lyrics you happen to understand are inane), the "singing" (and I use that term loosely) is nasal, strained, and wouldn't stand a chance of being heard from farther than 10' away, without the help of their studio engineers.
Don't even get me started about opera...
Today's opera singers are mostly pathetic. The women have no developed chest voices. Both men and women sing in the nose and have voices the size of mosquitos.
The days of Corelli, Callas, del Monaco, Obraztsova, Tebaldi, Bjorling, Ruffo, etc. are LONG GONE.
Here is an example of magnificent singing:
https://youtu.be/NJX0b9ZChYk


Thanks for sharing the video, Primo.  She has a great voice and it's a wonderful performance.  

What do you think about the movie Amadeus?  ...likely my favorite (tied with Forrest Gump).
Le Nozze di Figaro è bellissima!

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 05-25-2019, 12:21 PM
#24
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Either you'll go look for it, or you won't hear it.. unless you can convince the owners of mass media and the shareholders of the record companies to change their policies (and their bottom lines). Good luck with that Smile

And funnily enough I heard the exact same argument from people in my parents generation 25-30 years ago too...

Fun fact: NRK - Norwegian public broadcasting, funded by tax money and a mandatory annual license fee - have as part of their portfolio the task to promote new, unestablished musicians and bands. While the majority of the music uploaded is fairly avrage, there are some gems in there... and I do believe it's available for non-norwegians too: http://urort.p3.no/#!/

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 05-25-2019, 12:50 PM
#25
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(05-25-2019, 12:16 PM)Nero Wrote:
(05-25-2019, 09:48 AM)primotenore Wrote:
(05-25-2019, 07:52 AM)Nero Wrote: What's funny about all this is that when we are alluding to "good music", everyone assumed we are talking about Rock in its many forms.
... That's how good that genre was for decades.
As a 30 year Opera Singer, I can tell you I wasn't referring to rock music. But I elaborate on my curt, first response.
Today's "popular" music is generic and cookie-cutter, with unintelligible lyrics (the lyrics you happen to understand are inane), the "singing" (and I use that term loosely) is nasal, strained, and wouldn't stand a chance of being heard from farther than 10' away, without the help of their studio engineers.
Don't even get me started about opera...
Today's opera singers are mostly pathetic. The women have no developed chest voices. Both men and women sing in the nose and have voices the size of mosquitos.
The days of Corelli, Callas, del Monaco, Obraztsova, Tebaldi, Bjorling, Ruffo, etc. are LONG GONE.
Here is an example of magnificent singing:
https://youtu.be/NJX0b9ZChYk


Thanks for sharing the video, Primo.  She has a great voice and it's a wonderful performance.  

What do you think about the movie Amadeus?  ...likely my favorite (tied with Forrest Gump).
Le Nozze di Figaro è bellissima!
Love Amadeus, Matt.
Milos Foreman and Tom Hulce at the top of their game. Kudos to F. Murray Abraham, who steals the show. Fiction, but fun.
Sadly, there are no "great" movies about opera. There are, however, some stellar recordings of live opera performances.

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 05-25-2019, 12:56 PM
#26
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(05-25-2019, 12:21 PM)WegianWarrior Wrote: Either you'll go look for it, or you won't hear it.. unless you can convince the owners of mass media and the shareholders of the record companies to change their policies (and their bottom lines). Good luck with that Smile

And funnily enough I heard the exact same argument from people in my parents generation 25-30 years ago too...

Fun fact: NRK - Norwegian public broadcasting, funded by tax money and a mandatory annual license fee - have as part of their portfolio the task to promote new, unestablished musicians and bands. While the majority of the music uploaded is fairly avrage, there are some gems in there... and I do believe it's available for non-norwegians too: http://urort.p3.no/#!/
Hans, 
IMO, there's a big difference. While the masses may have freaked out when Elvis appeared, similarly with Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra, today, the "stars" are simple less talented. They don't learn how to sing, they rely solely on engineers to work their magic.
Listen to Elvis here: (Start at 3:00, if you must)
This guy could actually sing. SHOW me an example of a singer in 2019 that has this vocal prowess. Please.

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 05-25-2019, 03:52 PM
#27
  • Nero
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(05-25-2019, 12:56 PM)primotenore Wrote:
(05-25-2019, 12:21 PM)WegianWarrior Wrote: Either you'll go look for it, or you won't hear it.. unless you can convince the owners of mass media and the shareholders of the record companies to change their policies (and their bottom lines). Good luck with that Smile

And funnily enough I heard the exact same argument from people in my parents generation 25-30 years ago too...

Fun fact: NRK - Norwegian public broadcasting, funded by tax money and a mandatory annual license fee - have as part of their portfolio the task to promote new, unestablished musicians and bands. While the majority of the music uploaded is fairly avrage, there are some gems in there... and I do believe it's available for non-norwegians too: http://urort.p3.no/#!/
Hans, 
IMO, there's a big difference. While the masses may have freaked out when Elvis appeared, similarly with Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra, today, the "stars" are simple less talented. They don't learn how to sing, they rely solely on engineers to work their magic.
Listen to Elvis here: (Start at 3:00, if you must)
This guy could actually sing. SHOW me an example of a singer in 2019 that has this vocal prowess. Please.
https://youtu.be/Uwelrtb8Oho

Thank God that you said that, Primo.
I knew we were on the same page.

I don't care what era anyone or anything is from... it's about whatcha got to give.  I'm dying to see a talented performer or studio artist in 2019.  But they all suck in the studio and live... because there's simply no talent and no imagination, and not even the basics/fundamentals to even begin with.  

But hey, she can shake her booty, get plastic surgery and her record company can pay for her make-up artist (and marketing)... there ya go, thats "music" in 2019.  Give her a Grammy.
But she doesn't know what a C note is.  

Crazy world... and these people are admired like gods/goddesses (for a week, then it's on to the next no-talent poseur).  Like I said, EMBARRASSED for my generation.

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 05-25-2019, 05:14 PM
#28
  • chazt
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Thank you, Joseph. I enjoyed her performance. The last 20 or so seconds were intensely serene. Just beautiful.

Interesting that this artist and Emily Cheung both wear orange gowns. Is that a thing?

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 05-25-2019, 05:28 PM
#29
  • chazt
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Elvis is King for a reason. My wife and I danced to Can’t Help Falling In Love. Still gets me every time.

The only time I ever saw my Dad stop dead in his tracks to listen to music was when he and I were shopping in a hardware store and they played Are You Lonesome Tonight? over the store P.A. Seriously. The man just stopped right there in the middle of the store and just listened to Elvis sing. He turned to me and said, “Wow, he’s got a great voice.” I don’t recall him ever so enthusiastically endorse any other musical artist.

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 05-25-2019, 05:32 PM
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I like many types of music.

Today I think the electronic music scene makes some solid stuff.
I listen to house music a lot and I still find a good deal of new tracks being released, that I enjoy listening to.

I can still listen to the old music, it's not going to die.

I enjoy blues, pop, disco, hip hop, soul and R&B, funk, smooth jazz, crooners and some of the less advanced jazz.

Personally I don't find, that the music scene of today is going that much downhill compared to the older days.
It's just harder for new names to sell records now, they sell downloads and streams and we only see the older known performers getting really rich from their music, and mostly from touring around the world.

If you're a new performer, it definitely has become harder to make money from making music.

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 05-25-2019, 06:10 PM
#31
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(05-25-2019, 05:14 PM)chazt Wrote: Thank you, Joseph. I enjoyed her performance. The last 20 or so seconds were intensely serene. Just beautiful.

Interesting that this artist and Emily Cheung both wear orange gowns. Is that a thing?
You're welcome Charlie. Do a Youtube search of her. She was amazing. I think the orange was just a coincidence.

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 05-25-2019, 07:10 PM
#32
  • Nero
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If you know of any, please tell us today's secret musical prodigies that we should be listening to... save us the search.

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 05-25-2019, 07:51 PM
#33
  • Hanzo
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(05-25-2019, 07:10 PM)Nero Wrote: If you know of any, please tell us today's secret musical prodigies that we should be listening to... save us the search.

But the point everyone is trying to make to you is YOU have to search and find the music that moves you. What is the music that brings you to ecstatic pleasure, to tears, to dance , to a fist pump of celebration because that is the jam, dammit. No one is going to do the work for you nor should you expect  corporate entertainment or Primo to fulfill your individual needs for music. If you hate pre packaged music then pre packaged advice is about of the same value. In music and it most things self education is the only education.

I bought my first record album at 17, never heard of the band or its music. I liked the name and the album cover and bought it. It was Black Flag's Damaged album. Took it home and put it on the turn table. BAM, that's it, the kind of music I want. Loud,chaotic, aggressive, noisy , raw . I embarked on finding more bands and more music like it and I worked at it , no computers back then to make it easy. Everything was mail order. I would write record labels and small distributors for free catalogs or pour over New Musical Express or Maximum Rock and Roll . I would listen to my local college station for music I might like.But the payoff of the work of searching was more bands, more music ,more labels of music that was meaningful and enjoyable to me.

The fresh , innovative , interesting music of a time is always underground below the surface ,its cutting edge and not popular, it needs searching out but you got to look for it . Or its music of a past age that was ahead of its time but its here for us to find .

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 05-25-2019, 08:03 PM
#34
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(05-25-2019, 11:56 AM)Nero Wrote: I hear it all the time... "there is still good music, but you need to look for it."

I don't want to.  We never had to 25+ years ago.

And I definitely don't want bad music forced upon me every time I'm out and about... it's everywhere and unavoidable.

We did have to look for good music way back when.  My small group of friends listened to music that no one else was listening to.  Most people I knew were listening to the likes of KISS, Springsteen, ABBA and Foreigner.  Sorry if I offended anyone.  No, I'm not sorry.   Biggrin  But we had to look for the music.  Speaking for myself, I was a teenager in the mid to late 70's.  I think that time period produced some of the greatest fusion music ever.  The only difference between then and now is that we are older.  And somewhat less connected with the music scene in a sense.  By that I mean most cool and new music is not advertised on the internet.  So you needed to be in the right circle to know who was playing at Seventh Avenue South or The Village Gate.  Or read the Village Voice.  But when we were young we had all the time in the world to chase great music.  Now, children, wives, jobs get in the way.  Now as my son gets older and I don't have to hover quite so much, I have more time to stay up on who's playing where.  And my son is a beneficiary of that.  And I'm seeing much more music than I have in a very long time.  Is there less of it?  Probably.  But it's out there.

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 05-25-2019, 09:26 PM
#35
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(05-25-2019, 12:56 PM)primotenore Wrote:
(05-25-2019, 12:21 PM)WegianWarrior Wrote: Either you'll go look for it, or you won't hear it.. unless you can convince the owners of mass media and the shareholders of the record companies to change their policies (and their bottom lines). Good luck with that Smile

And funnily enough I heard the exact same argument from people in my parents generation 25-30 years ago too...

Fun fact: NRK - Norwegian public broadcasting, funded by tax money and a mandatory annual license fee - have as part of their portfolio the task to promote new, unestablished musicians and bands. While the majority of the music uploaded is fairly avrage, there are some gems in there... and I do believe it's available for non-norwegians too: http://urort.p3.no/#!/
Hans, 
IMO, there's a big difference. While the masses may have freaked out when Elvis appeared, similarly with Bing Crosby and Frank Sinatra, today, the "stars" are simple less talented. They don't learn how to sing, they rely solely on engineers to work their magic.
Listen to Elvis here: (Start at 3:00, if you must)
This guy could actually sing. SHOW me an example of a singer in 2019 that has this vocal prowess. Please.

The "stars" are whom the record companies sign up on the basis of what they believe will sell (ie: same as the last hit, only more so). Some are are great singers, some are adequate; however all are put through the post processing so they all sound the same in the end.

Quite a few neoclassical and symphonic metal bands have classically trained vocalists with an amazing control of their voices as part of their lineup, but you'll find them mostly on independent labels... which gives them a much larger control over how they sounds on the record.

And Primo? 25-30 years ago people were complaining over the fact that the King and his contemporaries disappeared from airplay, not that they appeared... my point still stands Wink

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 05-26-2019, 01:52 AM
#36
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(05-25-2019, 07:10 PM)Nero Wrote: If you know of any, please tell us today's secret musical prodigies that we should be listening to... save us the search.
Tell me your favorite genres and I will happily respond, Matt.

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 05-26-2019, 05:02 AM
#37
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CLively conversation boys.  Thanks for bringing it up.  Primo tenor I've enjoyed your input and always wondered about your forum name.  Grateful to know you don't sing contralto.  Music has always been a big part of my life. Shoot, it even used to earn me pocket money back in the day.  In the beginning I felt like I was becoming "that guy" who walked up hill in the snow both ways to and from school because I saw limited creative talent on the radio.  Then I went through a period where I tried to determine if my "oldies" music was just so great because of the many years it was high-graded.  I've come to the conclusion that both scenarios are correct.  Every era has great musicians but only the best survive time.  And even among the greats there are doggy dogs that shouldn't see the light of day ever again (thinking about Claptons disco days). I've also determined that all music doesn't have to suit me to be valuable nor to be appreciated.  That said I think it all rolls into what we might call the music industry paradigm. The music industry "owners" are there to make money.  They will take the fastest route to the money.  Fastest money is not made by developing a new talent but I feeding a never-ending stream of sameness.  Add that to the ease of buying music, and the relatively low cost of such and we have the perfect storm of cheap-and-a-lot.  A steady diet of Vegas buffets of music rather than locally owned musical gastronomic delights.  Oh, the talent is still out there!  One only needs to walk the streets of Nashville or Austin and listen to the steady stream of great music rolling into the streets by musicians who's name few of us will ever know.  All I know is that because media players are so voluminous and getting to the next track is a button-push away, the impetus of listening to "different music is gone so the "familiar" is perpetuated.  I remember being baffled that on an album of music the best songs were NEVER the popular radio-played ones. It was fun to listen to the ALBUM and let an artist take me on a trip rather than letting the radio feed me which song off the album was popular.  Shoot, I would hate to be ugly and talented today. The industry only wants to feed me pretty people with a packaged product and a computer instead of a band.  And Mtnman, Frank Zappa by ALL accounts is an acquired taste but who could deny his musicianship? I'm convinced the worm will turn, the pendulum will swing back, and we will once again get to revel in a glorious, imperfect, performance by a band full of consummate professionals playing live in A studio together. (And PLEASE give this old guitar man a REAL LIVE DRUMMER!  drum machines are to music what Pop Tarts are to cuisine.

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 05-26-2019, 05:07 AM
#38
  • chazt
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  • Queens, NY
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(05-25-2019, 08:03 PM)MntnMan62 Wrote: We did have to look for good music way back when.  My small group of friends listened to music that no one else was listening to.  Most people I knew were listening to the likes of KISS, Springsteen, ABBA and Foreigner.  Sorry if I offended anyone.  No, I'm not sorry.   Biggrin  But we had to look for the music.  Speaking for myself, I was a teenager in the mid to late 70's.  I think that time period produced some of the greatest fusion music ever.  The only difference between then and now is that we are older.  And somewhat less connected with the music scene in a sense.  By that I mean most cool and new music is not advertised on the internet.  So you needed to be in the right circle to know who was playing at Seventh Avenue South or The Village Gate.  Or read the Village Voice.  But when we were young we had all the time in the world to chase great music.  Now, children, wives, jobs get in the way.  Now as my son gets older and I don't have to hover quite so much, I have more time to stay up on who's playing where.  And my son is a beneficiary of that.  And I'm seeing much more music than I have in a very long time.  Is there less of it?  Probably.  But it's out there.

Good post, Todd. It seems that many of us have similar tastes in music.

We’re a cohort! Any sociologists among us?

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 05-26-2019, 05:23 AM
#39
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(05-26-2019, 05:02 AM)Lipripper60 Wrote: CLively conversation boys.  Thanks for bringing it up.  Primo tenor I've enjoyed your input and always wondered about your forum name.  Grateful to know you don't sing contralto.  Music has always been a big part of my life. Shoot, it even used to earn me pocket money back in the day.  In the beginning I felt like I was becoming "that guy" who walked up hill in the snow both ways to and from school because I saw limited creative talent on the radio.  Then I went through a period where I tried to determine if my "oldies" music was just so great because of the many years it was high-graded.  I've come to the conclusion that both scenarios are correct.  Every era has great musicians but only the best survive time.  And even among the greats there are doggy dogs that shouldn't see the light of day ever again (thinking about Claptons disco days). I've also determined that all music doesn't have to suit me to be valuable nor to be appreciated.  That said I think it all rolls into what we might call the music industry paradigm. The music industry "owners" are there to make money.  They will take the fastest route to the money.  Fastest money is not made by developing a new talent but I feeding a never-ending stream of sameness.  Add that to the ease of buying music, and the relatively low cost of such and we have the perfect storm of cheap-and-a-lot.  A steady diet of Vegas buffets of music rather than locally owned musical gastronomic delights.  Oh, the talent is still out there!  One only needs to walk the streets of Nashville or Austin and listen to the steady stream of great music rolling into the streets by musicians who's name few of us will ever know.  All I know is that because media players are so voluminous and getting to the next track is a button-push away, the impetus of listening to "different music is gone so the "familiar" is perpetuated.  I remember being baffled that on an album of music the best songs were NEVER the popular radio-played ones. It was fun to listen to the ALBUM and let an artist take me on a trip rather than letting the radio feed me which song off the album was popular.  Shoot, I would hate to be ugly and talented today. The industry only wants to feed me pretty people with a packaged product and a computer instead of a band.  And Mtnman, Frank Zappa by ALL accounts is an acquired taste but who could deny his musicianship? I'm convinced the worm will turn, the pendulum will swing back, and we will once again get to revel in a glorious, imperfect, performance by a band full of consummate professionals playing live in A studio together. (And PLEASE give this old guitar man a REAL LIVE DRUMMER!  drum machines are to music what Pop Tarts are to cuisine.
Excellent post.

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 05-26-2019, 05:38 AM
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There is a ton of great music, most of which is not played on radio, unfortunately.

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