06-18-2019, 05:28 PM
#1
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Anyone have any luck picking up an Ebonite Samurai tonight?  Paladin just had a release.  I clicked on add to cart, exactly at the moment of the drop and  it takes me to paypal, I click on my bank info, sale is about to be confirmed and it then tells me that item has already sold.  This has happened to me more than a few times while trying to buy a Paladin.   Why would site allow me to click add to cart and take me to paypal for payment if brush was already not available?  Anyone have any tips on how to increase my odds?  I am little frustrated at the moment.

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 06-18-2019, 06:08 PM
#2
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(06-18-2019, 05:28 PM)petropn Wrote: Anyone have any luck picking up an Ebonite Samurai tonight?  Paladin just had a release.  I clicked on add to cart, exactly at the moment of the drop and  it takes me to paypal, I click on my bank info, sale is about to be confirmed and it then tells me that item has already sold.  This has happened to me more than a few times while trying to buy a Paladin.   Why would site allow me to click add to cart and take me to paypal for payment if brush was already not available?  Anyone have any tips on how to increase my odds?  I am little frustrated at the moment.

The way Shopify works is that no item is reserved until check-out is completed (i.e., payment has been initiated). This is universally true, and we have no control over it. What that means is anyone can put a brush in their cart and carry it into checkout up to the point someone else completes a purchase transaction for that brush via issuance of payment instruction. A couple years ago, initiation of checkout would effect reservation of an item for five minutes; however Shopify unilaterally changed the process due to bot attacks. 

This was the first release in which we offered Ebonite Samurai, or any Samurai for that matter outside the Bullgoose 10th Anniversary LE. There were more potential buyers than brushes in that design. 

Sorry for your frustration.

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 06-18-2019, 06:26 PM
#3
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Ken, thank you for your reply.  If I am not mistaken, it is not who clicks "add to cart" first but who can actually click the add to cart and then rush through the PayPal payment process first?  Once I was able to select  add to cart, I thought I was in clear and was taking my time in PayPal.  Any chance you are going to release some Sumo brushes in the near future?

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 06-18-2019, 06:34 PM
#4
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(06-18-2019, 06:26 PM)petropn Wrote: Ken, thank you for your reply.  If I am not mistaken, it is not who clicks "add to cart" first but who can actually click the add to cart and then rush through the PayPal payment process first?  Once I was able to select  add to cart, I thought I was in clear and was taking my time in PayPal.  Any chance you are going to release some Sumo brushes in the near future?

That's right, and it would be (was) counter-intuitive to me also. Sometime prior to June 2017, initiation of checkout did effect limited reservation. But that changed without any prior notice, at least not of which we were aware. See  https://www.paladinshaving.com/blogs/new...18-release (posted in July 2017).

As far as I know, placing an item in a cart doesn't accomplish anything of significance other than progress toward checkout, which in itself doesn't appear to accomplish anything other than progress toward payment.

Net-net, with Shopify hosted sites it's a race to payment. 

Others here might be able to offer tips with regard to payment. I would have though PayPal would be faster in a race than using a credit card, but I think that's not right.

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 06-19-2019, 05:31 AM
#5
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this listing was sure full o f gorgeous brushes.  hopefully, for my wallet I hope I am content with my ebonites I have already

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 06-19-2019, 09:31 AM
#6
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(06-18-2019, 06:34 PM)ChiefBroom Wrote:
(06-18-2019, 06:26 PM)petropn Wrote: Ken, thank you for your reply.  If I am not mistaken, it is not who clicks "add to cart" first but who can actually click the add to cart and then rush through the PayPal payment process first?  Once I was able to select  add to cart, I thought I was in clear and was taking my time in PayPal.  Any chance you are going to release some Sumo brushes in the near future?

That's right, and it would be (was) counter-intuitive to me also. Sometime prior to June 2017, initiation of checkout did effect limited reservation. But that changed without any prior notice, at least not of which we were aware. See  https://www.paladinshaving.com/blogs/new...18-release (posted in July 2017).

As far as I know, placing an item in a cart doesn't accomplish anything of significance other than progress toward checkout, which in itself doesn't appear to accomplish anything other than progress toward payment.

Net-net, with Shopify hosted sites it's a race to payment. 

Others here might be able to offer tips with regard to payment. I would have though PayPal would be faster in a race than using a credit card, but I think that's not right.
I realize the merchants bear no responsibility for this change, but it's exactly that change that has pushed me away from these "drop" sales. Too bad. I won't participate in that kind of "free-for-all" again.  Sad

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 06-19-2019, 12:15 PM
#7
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(06-19-2019, 09:31 AM)primotenore Wrote:
(06-18-2019, 06:34 PM)ChiefBroom Wrote:
(06-18-2019, 06:26 PM)petropn Wrote: Ken, thank you for your reply.  If I am not mistaken, it is not who clicks "add to cart" first but who can actually click the add to cart and then rush through the PayPal payment process first?  Once I was able to select  add to cart, I thought I was in clear and was taking my time in PayPal.  Any chance you are going to release some Sumo brushes in the near future?

That's right, and it would be (was) counter-intuitive to me also. Sometime prior to June 2017, initiation of checkout did effect limited reservation. But that changed without any prior notice, at least not of which we were aware. See  https://www.paladinshaving.com/blogs/new...18-release (posted in July 2017).

As far as I know, placing an item in a cart doesn't accomplish anything of significance other than progress toward checkout, which in itself doesn't appear to accomplish anything other than progress toward payment.

Net-net, with Shopify hosted sites it's a race to payment. 

Others here might be able to offer tips with regard to payment. I would have though PayPal would be faster in a race than using a credit card, but I think that's not right.
I realize the merchants bear no responsibility for this change, but it's exactly that change that has pushed me away from these "drop" sales. Too bad. I won't participate in that kind of "free-for-all" again.  Sad

So, what would you have us do?

We've been around and around and around this. There is no solution that doesn't involve trade-offs and compromises. We've tried to optimize along lines that give everyone a fair chance. 

For the most part, our releases of brushes with non-Ebonite handles are no longer free-for-alls. 

And for what it's worth, this was our first release to include any Samurai, let alone Ebonite-handled Samurai.

When will this horse have been sufficiently flogged?

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 06-19-2019, 01:53 PM
#8
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(06-19-2019, 12:15 PM)ChiefBroom Wrote:
(06-19-2019, 09:31 AM)primotenore Wrote:
(06-18-2019, 06:34 PM)ChiefBroom Wrote: That's right, and it would be (was) counter-intuitive to me also. Sometime prior to June 2017, initiation of checkout did effect limited reservation. But that changed without any prior notice, at least not of which we were aware. See  https://www.paladinshaving.com/blogs/new...18-release (posted in July 2017).

As far as I know, placing an item in a cart doesn't accomplish anything of significance other than progress toward checkout, which in itself doesn't appear to accomplish anything other than progress toward payment.

Net-net, with Shopify hosted sites it's a race to payment. 

Others here might be able to offer tips with regard to payment. I would have though PayPal would be faster in a race than using a credit card, but I think that's not right.
I realize the merchants bear no responsibility for this change, but it's exactly that change that has pushed me away from these "drop" sales. Too bad. I won't participate in that kind of "free-for-all" again.  Sad

So, what would you have us do?

We've been around and around and around this. There is no solution that doesn't involve trade-offs and compromises. We've tried to optimize along lines that give everyone a fair chance. 

For the most part, our releases of brushes with non-Ebonite handles are no longer free-for-alls. 

And for what it's worth, this was our first release to include any Samurai, let alone Ebonite-handled Samurai.

When will this horse have been sufficiently flogged?
I don't know. Complain to Shopify, perhaps, that your customers don't like the system?  How about a 60 second "hold"? Is that too much to ask?
I didn't blame you, Ken. Did you not read my post thoroughly? But you're not the one who has had a brush in their cart, only to have it sold out from under you. If you think this is "horse flogging", then there must be a real issue here. This goes beyond Paladin, sir. It's an "issue" with a few merchants.

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 06-19-2019, 02:41 PM
#9
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(06-19-2019, 01:53 PM)primotenore Wrote:
(06-19-2019, 12:15 PM)ChiefBroom Wrote:
(06-19-2019, 09:31 AM)primotenore Wrote: I realize the merchants bear no responsibility for this change, but it's exactly that change that has pushed me away from these "drop" sales. Too bad. I won't participate in that kind of "free-for-all" again.  Sad

So, what would you have us do?

We've been around and around and around this. There is no solution that doesn't involve trade-offs and compromises. We've tried to optimize along lines that give everyone a fair chance. 

For the most part, our releases of brushes with non-Ebonite handles are no longer free-for-alls. 

And for what it's worth, this was our first release to include any Samurai, let alone Ebonite-handled Samurai.

When will this horse have been sufficiently flogged?
I don't know. Complain to Shopify, perhaps, that your customers don't like the system?  How about a 60 second "hold"? Is that too much to ask?
I didn't blame you, Ken. Did you not read my post thoroughly? But you're not the one who has had a brush in their cart, only to have it sold out from under you. If you think this is "horse flogging", then there must be a real issue here. This goes beyond Paladin, sir. It's an "issue" with a few merchants.
Isn't it always exciting to see if your payment goes through?

Think there's not really a win-win situation no matter how you organize it. Opening up some sort of priority list for picking on releases, possibly. Not a wait list but an announcement of batch release to sign up type of thing so kind of random timing but paying attention to announcements. You'd need to find a way to control multiple sign ups by one person. Then people would sell their spots potentially.

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 06-19-2019, 02:57 PM
#10
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(06-19-2019, 02:41 PM)Kevinklu Wrote:
(06-19-2019, 01:53 PM)primotenore Wrote:
(06-19-2019, 12:15 PM)ChiefBroom Wrote: So, what would you have us do?

We've been around and around and around this. There is no solution that doesn't involve trade-offs and compromises. We've tried to optimize along lines that give everyone a fair chance. 

For the most part, our releases of brushes with non-Ebonite handles are no longer free-for-alls. 

And for what it's worth, this was our first release to include any Samurai, let alone Ebonite-handled Samurai.

When will this horse have been sufficiently flogged?
I don't know. Complain to Shopify, perhaps, that your customers don't like the system?  How about a 60 second "hold"? Is that too much to ask?
I didn't blame you, Ken. Did you not read my post thoroughly? But you're not the one who has had a brush in their cart, only to have it sold out from under you. If you think this is "horse flogging", then there must be a real issue here. This goes beyond Paladin, sir. It's an "issue" with a few merchants.
Isn't it always exciting to see if your payment goes through?

Think there's not really a win-win situation no matter how you organize it.  Opening up some sort of priority list for picking on releases, possibly. Not a wait list but an announcement of batch release to sign up type of thing so kind of random timing but paying attention to announcements. You'd need to find a way to control multiple sign ups by one person.  Then people would sell their spots potentially.
Respectfully disagree. Too much paperwork. Shopify needs to return to the "temporary hold" on items placed in a cart. I suggested 60 seconds. The merchant loses absolutely nothing, and, IMO, should support this 100%.

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 06-19-2019, 03:09 PM
#11
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Early on in Paladin's history, I lost brushes in my cart while I was paying for them.  I understand the frustration.  It's not the fault of the merchants.  On the Shopify website, the company states that 800,000 vendors use its platform.  Shopify has total control regarding the details of how its platform operates, and merchants don't have viable alternative platforms.  Complaints from Paladin or its frustated customers  will accomplish nothing.  It's a problem without a totally satisfactory solution.

As Paladin continues to produce Ebonite brushes, buying one will become less of a free-for-all.  There used to be a free-for-all when resin brushes were listed, but now they're always in stock.  Paladin will be around for a long time.  With patience, anyone who wants an Ebonite brush can get one.  Those who don't like the current hassles can sit it out until the situation improves, as Primo has opted to do.

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 06-19-2019, 03:19 PM
#12
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(06-19-2019, 01:53 PM)primotenore Wrote:
(06-19-2019, 12:15 PM)ChiefBroom Wrote:
(06-19-2019, 09:31 AM)primotenore Wrote: I realize the merchants bear no responsibility for this change, but it's exactly that change that has pushed me away from these "drop" sales. Too bad. I won't participate in that kind of "free-for-all" again.  Sad

So, what would you have us do?

We've been around and around and around this. There is no solution that doesn't involve trade-offs and compromises. We've tried to optimize along lines that give everyone a fair chance. 

For the most part, our releases of brushes with non-Ebonite handles are no longer free-for-alls. 

And for what it's worth, this was our first release to include any Samurai, let alone Ebonite-handled Samurai.

When will this horse have been sufficiently flogged?
I don't know. Complain to Shopify, perhaps, that your customers don't like the system?  How about a 60 second "hold"? Is that too much to ask?
I didn't blame you, Ken. Did you not read my post thoroughly? But you're not the one who has had a brush in their cart, only to have it sold out from under you. If you think this is "horse flogging", then there must be a real issue here. This goes beyond Paladin, sir. It's an "issue" with a few merchants.

I read your post thoroughly.

On what basis do you assume we've never complained to Shopify?

In point of fact, we have.

I don't know when you last tried to buy one of our brushes, but if you were unsuccessful, it was because someone else executed payment before you did.

Whenever more than one person attempts to buy the same brush at very close to the same time, all but one will end up being disappointed. There's no way around that. And it doesn't result from a defective business model.

I took your point. I've taken the same point and responded to it many times. There's nothing new to say about it, but it keeps cropping up. So I keep responding.

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 06-19-2019, 03:25 PM
#13
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(06-19-2019, 03:19 PM)ChiefBroom Wrote:
(06-19-2019, 01:53 PM)primotenore Wrote:
(06-19-2019, 12:15 PM)ChiefBroom Wrote: So, what would you have us do?

We've been around and around and around this. There is no solution that doesn't involve trade-offs and compromises. We've tried to optimize along lines that give everyone a fair chance. 

For the most part, our releases of brushes with non-Ebonite handles are no longer free-for-alls. 

And for what it's worth, this was our first release to include any Samurai, let alone Ebonite-handled Samurai.

When will this horse have been sufficiently flogged?
I don't know. Complain to Shopify, perhaps, that your customers don't like the system?  How about a 60 second "hold"? Is that too much to ask?
I didn't blame you, Ken. Did you not read my post thoroughly? But you're not the one who has had a brush in their cart, only to have it sold out from under you. If you think this is "horse flogging", then there must be a real issue here. This goes beyond Paladin, sir. It's an "issue" with a few merchants.

I read your post thoroughly.

On what basis do you assume we've never complained to Shopify?

In point of fact, we have.

I don't know when you last tried to buy one of our brushes, but if you were unsuccessful, it was because someone else executed payment before you did.

Whenever more than one person attempts to buy the same brush at very close to the same time, all but one will end up being disappointed. There's no way around that. And it doesn't result from a defective business model.

I took your point. I've taken the same point and responded to it many times. There's nothing new to say about it, but it keeps cropping up. So I keep responding.
I have no basis, and I am happy that you have made attempts to change things with Shopify. I have successfully purchased 4 of your brushes directly from you so I believe that allows me credence to voice my opinion. Until Shopify changes their policies, I will, as Ricardo pointed out, be sitting these drops out. Not just from Paladin, but from Varlet, Wolfman, to name just a few.

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 06-19-2019, 03:31 PM
#14
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(06-19-2019, 03:09 PM)TheLegalRazor Wrote: As Paladin continues to produce Ebonite brushes, buying one will become less of a free-for-all.  There used to be a free-for-all when resin brushes were listed, but now they're always in stock.  Paladin will be around for a long time.  With patience, anyone who wants an Ebonite brush can get one.  

Inevitably, when the Ebonite brushes we make become easier to obtain, they won't be as desirable. 

Therein lies the rub.

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 06-19-2019, 07:35 PM
#15
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(06-19-2019, 03:31 PM)ChiefBroom Wrote:
(06-19-2019, 03:09 PM)TheLegalRazor Wrote: As Paladin continues to produce Ebonite brushes, buying one will become less of a free-for-all.  There used to be a free-for-all when resin brushes were listed, but now they're always in stock.  Paladin will be around for a long time.  With patience, anyone who wants an Ebonite brush can get one.  

Inevitably, when the Ebonite brushes we make become easier to obtain, they won't be as desirable. 

Therein lies the rub.

But you will still have one of the very best brushes you can get. I reciently got my first Paladin with the TSD Samurai brush and wouldn't trade it for any other brush out there.

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 06-19-2019, 08:31 PM
#16
  • Garb
  • Senior Member
  • Oregon
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I've been watching these drops and seeing how people get disappointed not getting the brush of their dreams and wonder, if possible, there could be a lottery system done to determine who gets what and when? The brushes would still hold their mystic and legendary marketability and buyers then might feel they won the chance to buy them without the struggle of sitting and waiting for a drop. Sales would still be made but not as rapidly as has been happening.
Paladin rocks the brush world.

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 06-19-2019, 09:13 PM
#17
  • SCOV
  • Senior Member
  • Minnesota
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I like the "thrill of the chase" to purchase a brush.  I have been both lucky and unlucky.  

When demand exceeds supply, no easy answer.  A lottery system would help those who are data entry challenged, but still only one winner and extra work for the artisan.

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 06-19-2019, 10:04 PM
#18
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I’ve purchased three paladins via the current system, with my latest (a honey-noir pk47) taking me the longest to acquire. I also enjoy the thrill of the chase.

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 06-20-2019, 05:33 AM
#19
  • Garb
  • Senior Member
  • Oregon
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I'm like you guys enjoying the chase as well and feel if it's my time then great and if not then there will come a time. I was just thinking that to give some others a feeling that there was more hope then doing that. LOL

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 06-20-2019, 06:54 AM
#20
  • SCOV
  • Senior Member
  • Minnesota
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The Shopify method has some advantages
- NO BOTS
- Sale finalized.  No need to hit refresh every 60 seconds to see if sale was approved (buyers remorse after 58 seconds, bad credit card, etc)

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