09-19-2012, 12:05 PM
#1
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
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[Image: P1250453.JPG?m=1348082393]

Disclaimer :

1.I'm not the owner of this brush.

2.I'm not against Simpson brand or brushes.I consider Simpson one of the top 3 brushes makers out there with no shadow of a doubt.The quality of their brushes is world wide known.

3.This is my first time using this Manchurian badger hair , but Ill be using it more and write what I find new (or what I dont find new).

Many things have been said/written about the Simpson Manchurian brushes , both the new and the previous ones (made under Mr David Carter Simpson's ownership).For experienced shavers , there are 3 "Holy Grails" of badger hairs , named :
  • Plisson High Mountain White
  • Rooney Finest
  • Simpson Manchurian

Today was my first attempt with this "elusive" and very expensive kind of badger hair , and I must say that Im not impressed at all with this kind of badger hair...

[Image: P1250454.JPG?m=1348082391]

This brush is simply another example of how good Simpson made their brushes : its stunning , simply and easy as that.Gorgeous you can call it too.The handle is such a beautiful one,heavy,curvy and a pleasure to hold.This brush represents the quintessential of a UK brush maker.Period.I dont think that nobody can argue/will ever argue that.It would be a fool or a "newbie".

Heres a pic with a Tulip 2 Super badger two band :

[Image: P1250459.JPG?m=1348084166]

As I said, this handle is gorgeous , closer to the old Somerset Tulip ones when we talk about "curves".

But Im afraid that the handle is only part of the brush and you want to know what have been my experience with the Manchurian badger hair.

Let me tell you that as soon as I got this brush I cleaned it (Barbicide) and lather tested like 10 times with shaving soaps and creams.This brush is a lather machine ,as we love t refer to this kind of brushes.Eats soaps like crazy and not a lather hog , even when is quiet densely packed with badger hair :

[Image: P1250456.JPG?m=1348082479]

I did palm lather and I felt some kind of scritchiness with this brush ,like the one I have when using some pure badger shaving brushes.I thought that after 10 times of used and since this is not a brand new brush , and its owner have used it quiet a bit , would be ready so I shave with it , using Acqua Di Parma shaving cream.

[Image: P1250455.JPG?m=1348082478]

Well,it feels like pure badger.It was scratchy ,much more than expected from a brush this price.It actually reminded me of the shavemac D01 two band both in the scritchiness of the tips and extra backbone.This brush has a firm backbone and no noticeable glue bump like Lee's Tulip 3 Manchurian Badger.Also has flow , more also than expected ,and I do appreciate that.

If this brush has the same kind of hair of the shavemac D01 two band there is hope , since the tips would be softer with use , but not velvety soft or gel alike soft : the scritchiness would be there always , but this is something that many old school facelatherers truly like.
I dont anymore.I havent paid for this brush but I expect that more price = softer tips. Thats not the case anymore.You can spend 250 dollars on a Manchurian or a shavemac D01 two band or Plisson HMW 2 band and dont get soft tips , or even closer to soft.

Again , this is not an attack to Simpson or their brushes but my honest comments about this kind of hair , which is "new" to me.And I said "new" cuz I feel that this is close to some of other 2 band brushes I have tried in the past , the shavemac D01 two band being one of them.

I must be like Yohann : After using Simpson Manchurian badger brushes , I think that... and think that best badger is the the hair offered by Simpson.Too early to say that , but I have been "playing" with the Chubby 2 best badger , which I got today too from the same friend , and I liked it much better...

Just take this thread as my first opinions about it and thats it.Ill keep trying this brush and posting my further impressions of it.

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 09-19-2012, 12:21 PM
#2
  • mikeperry
  • Senior Member
  • St Louis via the UK
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Hi Teiste

Nice initial impression review and those photos really show off the beauty of the brush, it really is a stunner Babeando

Take care, Mike

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 09-19-2012, 12:29 PM
#3
  • Andrew
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX
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Excellent, honest observations, Teiste. I actually knew you would prefer the CH2 Best. Keep using, the T3, though. Again with the YMMV here - I don't feel any scritch with the T3 Manchurian, and I, too, do not care for scritchy brushes. But then there may be a difference in the way we feel scritchy. I have had a few Simpsons in Best, the Classic 1 being one of them, that felt quite scritchy to me and left my face feeling a little raw. The T3 doesn't do that to me.

I agree with you on that handle. It is gorgeous and very comfortable in the hand. Perhaps my favorite handle of the Simpsons range.

I agree with you on the lathering aspects of the T3 Manchurian, too. Good flow, not overly dense, nice release, and a real soap killer.

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 09-19-2012, 01:04 PM
#4
  • Johnny
  • Super Moderator
  • Wausau, Wisconsin, USA
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Maybe the scritchy feeling has more to do with ones skin type than the hair in the brush.Huh

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 09-19-2012, 01:10 PM
#5
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Great pictures as always Teiste.

As I said in my other post, it's a hybrid feel. Not super soft tips but the feel of 3 band density with the stiffness of 2 band. This is purely talking of Simpson hair grades.

When you compare it to D01 2 band, it's similar in tip feel and appearance for sure. None of my Manchurian brushes are comparible (in size) as such to my D01 so it's hard to say any more on that.

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 09-19-2012, 02:25 PM
#6
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(09-19-2012, 01:04 PM)Johnny Wrote: Maybe the scritchy feeling has more to do with ones skin type than the hair in the brush.Huh

I think people just like the scritch, or don't.

Also, the more experience you have with the Manchurian, the better you're able to control how much pressure you use, so that also affects the scritch.

IIRC, sorry, can't experiment atm, but if you mash it into your face, it's going to leave it raw, but if you go lightly, it won't leave it as raw feeling. At least my face and a partially broken in Manchurian.

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 09-19-2012, 06:21 PM
#7
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I agree with your experience and review of the Simpsons Manchurian Teiste. I myself wanted badly to love this hair grade and gave it more then a fair shake after trying 3 different styles. The CH2, Polo 8 and Duke 3.

All 3 after 3 months of testing I ended up selling and dont miss them one bit. The short of it is, it was simply not pleasurable at all for me to use due to the almost "Pure" like scritchiness factor of the Simpson Manchurian hair. To Simpsons credit, as always they NEVER short change you on the amount of hair they pack in there brushes and the Manchurian is no exception, its a WELL packed Knot!

That aside, the quality or feel, I should say, of the Manchurian hair grade, as Teiste mentioned, resembles the feel of a pure badger and has left my face raw EVEN with hardly any pressure by the time I lather for my 3rd pass.

In fact more often then not, I would have to finish my shave with my Rooney or Thater when I shaved with the Manchurian. Another issue I had with this brush is how stiff it was even after 20+ shaves. It felt like the brush refuses to be broken in or something.

But all this said, clearly, when it comes to these "LE" Manchurian knots it has its fans so a YMMV in all fairness, should apply. Ultimately, Im glad I didnt become enamored with the magical Manchurian hair grade from a financial standpoint and Im much happier paying for any Simpson brush thats made in there wonderful 3 band Super or even Best which I both adore. Smile

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 09-19-2012, 06:40 PM
#8
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
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I have been testing the brush this evening , and again , a lather machine.But to me feels and behaves more like Pure badger than a proper ,soft tipped , 2 band brush , like the Rooney Heritage Stubby 2XL super badger two band.
Lookingforward to try it next saturday.Tomorrow Ill use the Chubby 2 in best badger and the Semogue LE 2010 for my birthday.

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 09-19-2012, 07:08 PM
#9
  • ben74
  • Administrator
  • Perth, Australia
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I find the Manchurian to provide the perfect amount of sensation. I don't like brushes that are too soft, but I dislike even more brushes that are prickly or over exfoliating.

I own the T3 Manchurian and use it regularly and it is one of my favourite handle shapes. It's also one of my preferred knots.

If you don't enjoy Rooney Finest, I can see why you would not be enamoured with Manchurian. I love my Rooney Finest, but have recently sold some of them to finance the acquisition of Simpsons Manchurians.

I own the old Rooney Heritage Stubby (sizes 1, 2 and 3) all with the famed "gel-like" tips. These are wonderful brushes, but definitely second to my Rooney Finest. (The closest brush I've own to the Heritage is the Thater (about 5 of them), but I sold them. A little too soft and super dense resulting in reduced flow thorough).

I owned a two band Shavemac D01 and sold it after a single use. It was simply uncomfortable for me - far too much sensation and no flex.

I own an Acca Kappa brush that I would class as "Pure" in grade. The tips provide a rough, scratchy feel against the face. The type of sensation that you would expect from trimmed hairs. I have persevered with it. It hasn't really softened. It's not my most enjoyable brush and hence sees little use.

My Manchurian T3 has relatively soft tips and the majority of the sensation is a result of ample backbone and not prickly tips.

I own many Simpsons Best (pre and post Vulfix) brushes and my only issue is that sometimes they don't have as much backbone as I would like. I have said many times that IMO Best is definitely the best "bang for your buck" in the Simpsons range.

I'm also adamant that Manchurian offers more. The premium may not be directly proportional, but for me the extra $ does equate to a hair grade that (for me) improves upon other hair grades in that it provides more of what I want from my brush.

My experience with the Manchurian is that:

It has sensation, but softens a little (not unlike Rooney Finest, but these traditionally had longer lofts and therefore reduced sensation compared to the Manchurian. My "old" or Carter era Manchurian even more closely reflects the Rooney Finest in that it also features a longer loft.

It has backbone, but it flexes more with use and subsequent blooms. The strength of the individual hairs provide resistance to the face which translates into sensation. IMO this is where the feel of the brush against the face is derived from and not necessarily the tips themselves.

It has excellent flow-through.

These are the qualities by which I measure the performance of a brush.

I want:

Soft tips, that don't scratch the face.
Enough backbone to provide sensation. (I don't want to lather with cotton wool, but conversely steel wool definitely isn't an option.)
Some flex and bloom, but not a mop like splay of ineffectual hair.
Flow through, I don't want to "milk" my brush to coax lather from it.

I've found that the Manchurian is the closest to offering these requirements in the preferred amounts and without sacrificing one aspect over another.

In short the Manchurian is "just right"... for me anyway...

It certainly would be terribly boring if we all liked exactly the same thing. Imagine that... Brush manufactures would only need to make one brush! What a terrible thought!

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 09-19-2012, 07:09 PM
#10
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Teiste, thanks for the frank assessment.

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 09-19-2012, 07:18 PM
#11
  • Andrew
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX
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What Ben said.

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 09-19-2012, 07:19 PM
#12
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
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Ben , as always , my good friend , thanks a lot for your thoughts and experience with your Tulip 3 Manchurian and with this kind of badger hair.

I do agree with you : it would be very boring if we all like the same.

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 09-19-2012, 07:59 PM
#13
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Thank you for your thoughts Ben. I think we agree on most things regarding the Manchurian hair. I'm not yet ready to make a final determination yet.

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 09-19-2012, 08:20 PM
#14
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(09-19-2012, 07:08 PM)ben74 Wrote: I find the Manchurian to provide the perfect amount of sensation. I don't like brushes that are too soft, but I dislike even more brushes that are prickly or over exfoliating.

I own the T3 Manchurian and use it regularly and it is one of my favourite handle shapes. It's also one of my preferred knots.

If you don't enjoy Rooney Finest, I can see why you would not be enamoured with Manchurian. I love my Rooney Finest, but have recently sold some of them to finance the acquisition of Simpsons Manchurians.

I own the old Rooney Heritage Stubby (sizes 1, 2 and 3) all with the famed "gel-like" tips. These are wonderful brushes, but definitely second to my Rooney Finest. (The closest brush I've own to the Heritage is the Thater (about 5 of them), but I sold them. A little too soft and super dense resulting in reduced flow thorough).

I owned a two band Shavemac D01 and sold it after a single use. It was simply uncomfortable for me - far too much sensation and no flex.

I own an Acca Kappa brush that I would class as "Pure" in grade. The tips provide a rough, scratchy feel against the face. The type of sensation that you would expect from trimmed hairs. I have persevered with it. It hasn't really softened. It's not my most enjoyable brush and hence sees little use.

My Manchurian T3 has relatively soft tips and the majority of the sensation is a result of ample backbone and not prickly tips.

I own many Simpsons Best (pre and post Vulfix) brushes and my only issue is that sometimes they don't have as much backbone as I would like. I have said many times that IMO Best is definitely the best "bang for your buck" in the Simpsons range.

I'm also adamant that Manchurian offers more. The premium may not be directly proportional, but for me the extra $ does equate to a hair grade that (for me) improves upon other hair grades in that it provides more of what I want from my brush.

My experience with the Manchurian is that:

It has sensation, but softens a little (not unlike Rooney Finest, but these traditionally had longer lofts and therefore reduced sensation compared to the Manchurian. My "old" or Carter era Manchurian even more closely reflects the Rooney Finest in that it also features a longer loft.

It has backbone, but it flexes more with use and subsequent blooms. The strength of the individual hairs provide resistance to the face which translates into sensation. IMO this is where the feel of the brush against the face is derived from and not necessarily the tips themselves.

It has excellent flow-through.

These are the qualities by which I measure the performance of a brush.

I want:

Soft tips, that don't scratch the face.
Enough backbone to provide sensation. (I don't want to lather with cotton wool, but conversely steel wool definitely isn't an option.)
Some flex and bloom, but not a mop like splay of ineffectual hair.
Flow through, I don't want to "milk" my brush to coax lather from it.

I've found that the Manchurian is the closest to offering these requirements in the preferred amounts and without sacrificing one aspect over another.

In short the Manchurian is "just right"... for me anyway...

It certainly would be terribly boring if we all liked exactly the same thing. Imagine that... Brush manufactures would only need to make one brush! What a terrible thought!



I agree with almost everything you said regarding the Simpson Manchurian, though I walk an even finer tightrope in regards to scritch. I find the Rooney Finests, the Semogue LE 2011 Finest 2, and Simpson 2 Banded that I own too scritchy for my taste.

When I want soft tips I reach for one of my Silver Tips or the Rooney XLs, but when I'm in the mood for that "just right" degree of scrub, backbone, and flow through it got to be one of the Manchurians.

I have yet to try a D01 two banded and after Teiste compared it to the Manchurian, I decided I need to add one to my den, then you go and say you got rid of yours after a single use. You guys aren't making this easy for me are you??? Undecided

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 09-19-2012, 08:37 PM
#15
  • beartrap
  • Resident Цирюльник
  • Southern California
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Thank you Teiste for this great write up. I was trying to postpone commenting, waiting for more people to post. I have not tried a Manchurian yet, but was always on the lookout for good deal on one. I don't see myself spending that much money on the brush. I do own several Simpsons and love them ALL (I am sure you will love chubby 2, even though it's big).
I respect Ben's opinion very much, I don't know anyone else who have tried as many brushes and has such great collection. But after reading many great reviews from Teiste, our lathering styles are very similar and I don't think I would like Manchurian. To me, best knot is "BEST"!
That said... I still want to try it!!! Tongue Biggrin

+2 on the YMMV is great! Otherwise this thing we're doing would get really boring.

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 09-19-2012, 10:00 PM
#16
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
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Well , the thing is , if you don't try it you will never know if its works for you , or not.
However , some things are more expensive than others and not all expensive things means that are going to be better or satisfied you.This is why , most of us , recommend best badger hair grade from Simpson , since its a grade of hair which would suit most of the needs/personal taste/likes from wet shavers while being more affordable than super badger 3 and 2 band or Manchurian badger.

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 09-19-2012, 10:39 PM
#17
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(09-19-2012, 10:00 PM)Teiste Wrote: Well , the thing is , if you don't try it you will never know if its works for you , or not.
However , some things are more expensive than others and not all expensive things means that are going to be better or satisfied you.This is why , most of us , recommend best badger hair grade from Simpson , since its a grade of hair which would suit most of the needs/personal taste/likes from wet shavers while being more affordable than super badger 3 and 2 band or Manchurian badger.

I think I've finally figured it out.

It all comes down to that question you ask when you need to buy a gift for the man who has everything.

We all agree that Manchurian hair has certain qualities. Some people really like the qualities, some don't. Clearly personal preference comes into play.

We all agree that Manchurian badger, wherever it comes from, and whatever the price, is at the very least good quality hair in a great handle. So, it's good quality.

We also all agree that it is one of the most expensive hairs out there. Beaten only by HMW or EW. This fact cannot be denied. It's sold only through the Simpsons website and those that own it don't like to part with it.

Now regardless of whether it is in fact a lower grade of hair or not, no one else makes it. At this time.

So, what does the man who has tried every type of hair need to try? Manchurian. HMW has already been around, and it is probable that he has at least tried this hair or is also on the list.

HMW is the only other hair that evokes the same reactions, and has the same rarity. You cannot get the hair from anywhere other than Plisson, at this time.

Let's face it. America is rich. We're pretty filthy rich. A good portion of the country can afford the $250 price tag on a Manchurian and not be in bad straits. I mean, it costs less than an Iphone and will probably last longer. So, in reality, it's not so outrageously expensive as to be out of reach for the person in the upper half of the income bracket.

So, that's what they do. The person who has tried all the different grades of silvertip and all the two band hairs HAS to try the Manchurian and HMW. Everyone agrees it is different than everything else.

Wet shaving is about experiencing the shave. A different hair is a different experience. Even though that experience comes with an enormous price tag.

Can Simpsons charge a lot less for the Manchurian hair and still come out very well off? Of course they can. But their marketing and the fact that no on else has yet replicated the hair means that they have a monopoly on the hair. Just like Plisson. So, unless you are willing to cough up the dough, you can't try it.

Is the Manchurian a lower grade of hair? I don't know, at this point. Maybe it is, but you know what, no one else is selling it.

Maybe the HMW is just a grade of hair that everyone else just mixes into their super silvertip grade? Maybe they use it in their best grade? Whatever the case, Plisson has sorted it out and filtered everything else, leaving the HMW.

So, in the end, Manchurian is a highly priced experience.

Worth it? If you really want to experience something different, then yes. At least until someone replicates it.

If you value value over a slightly different experience, then I suggest you save your money. It's really not that different. But it is different enough that it's not the same.

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 09-19-2012, 10:44 PM
#18
  • beartrap
  • Resident Цирюльник
  • Southern California
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Interesting take Lee Wink

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 09-19-2012, 10:47 PM
#19
  • Johnny
  • Super Moderator
  • Wausau, Wisconsin, USA
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I'm surprised there are any manchurians left to test. I thought they were all in Australia.Smile

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 09-20-2012, 01:36 AM
#20
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There are 22 No. brushes made up next to me ... Cool

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