09-17-2019, 10:27 PM
#1
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I have sometimes wondered why many sellers stipulate CONUS only. Yes, I know what it means, I just wonder why. I myself live in Australia, have a good track record, plenty of references if needed. I pay my money upfront, Australia post is reliable and  provides tracking, I'm quite prepared to pay for the extra postage etc., no increased risk to the seller. Nonetheless yet regularly people politely refuse to sell to me as I don't live in the USA. Is this a patriotic thing, do the wish their razors to stay in the USA, are they concerned with the transaction failing, don't like "foreigners"? Please enlighten me, no judgement, I just don't get it. My money is the same colour.

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 09-17-2019, 10:43 PM
#2
  • iamsms
  • The Patient Disciple
  • New Jersey
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I used to offer international shipping at cost. There has been many occasions when 1) potential buyer asks me how much would shipping cost 2) i ask him his address 3) he gets back to me 4) i enter his info into paypal shipping and give him estimate 4) sometimes, the buyer tries to argue, sometimes buyer accepts, sometimes simply refuses to proceed due to shipping cost. 5) finally, weird requests like ‘can you put $$ on shipping label’ 6) queries about why it hasn’t been delivered yet.

with CONUS - all these are unnecessary. I never ask for shipping as I know how much it would cost, delivery is dome within 4 days.

all that being said, if i know the buyer, and i have faith that he will pay me whatever the shipping cost is, I gladly sell and ship it.

so basically, why would I go through extra trouble when I don’t have to. i am not even american, nothing patriotic about my decision.

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 09-18-2019, 02:25 AM
#3
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As a big seller on eBay, I’ll tell you there is paperwork, duties, declarations, etc. the burden is sufficient that eBay developed the international shipping program, whereby we ship to eBay and they repackage and do the paperwork. I’ve had buyers accuse me of getting a kickback from eBay. And you lose if they ask for a return - you just refund the money and the cost of getting it back means you just never get anything back. It’s not patriotism or dislike for foreigners. It’s major headaches.

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 09-18-2019, 02:25 AM
#4
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(09-17-2019, 10:43 PM)iamsms Wrote: I used to offer international shipping at cost. There has been many occasions when 1) potential buyer asks me how much would shipping cost 2) i ask him his address 3) he gets back to me 4) i enter his info into paypal shipping and give him estimate 4) sometimes, the buyer tries to argue, sometimes buyer accepts, sometimes simply refuses to proceed due to shipping cost. 5) finally, weird requests like ‘can you put $$ on shipping label’ 6) queries about why it hasn’t been delivered yet.

with CONUS - all these are unnecessary. I never ask for shipping as I know how much it would cost, delivery is dome within 4 days.

all that being said, if i know the buyer, and i have faith that he will pay me whatever the shipping cost is, I gladly sell and ship it.

so basically, why would I go through extra trouble when I don’t have to. i am not even american, nothing patriotic about my decision.

I frankly fail to understand this as well. It seems to me that all the problems you mention can be avoided by simply stating: "International shipping is X$. I will not change declared customs value. Take it or leave it." Maybe this is not the usual American Xenophobia ™ but it sure does look like it. Odd that no European or Aussie ever seem to have these problems, huh?

But whatever. I read in the news that the US is about to leave the Universal Postal Union which has facilitated international postal service since 1874 so I suppose the American government agrees with CONUS only.

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 09-18-2019, 02:31 AM
#5
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(09-18-2019, 02:25 AM)challer Wrote: As a big seller on eBay, I’ll tell you there is paperwork, duties, declarations, etc. the burden is sufficient that eBay developed the international shipping program, whereby we ship to eBay and they repackage and do the paperwork. I’ve had buyers accuse me of getting a kickback from eBay. And you lose if they ask for a return - you just refund the money and the cost of getting it back means you just never get anything back. It’s not patriotism or dislike for foreigners. It’s major headaches.

Again though: interesting that none of these problems apparently exists from the world to the US, only from the US to the world. Perhaps that infamous negative trading balance is beginning to make sense.

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 09-18-2019, 03:40 AM
#6
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(09-18-2019, 02:25 AM)challer Wrote: As a big seller on eBay, I’ll tell you there is paperwork, duties, declarations, etc. the burden is sufficient that eBay developed the international shipping program, whereby we ship to eBay and they repackage and do the paperwork. I’ve had buyers accuse me of getting a kickback from eBay. And you lose if they ask for a return - you just refund the money and the cost of getting it back means you just never get anything back. It’s not patriotism or dislike for foreigners. It’s major headaches.

Not really referring to ebay, but razor forums such as this and facebook buy and sell pages where it's just a transaction between individuals  I send stuff overseas all the time, yes you have to fill out a customs form but this barely takes longer than writing postage details on the envelope. I don't personally see where the headache is on sites such at this.

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 09-18-2019, 03:46 AM
#7
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The shipping restriction is a big problem to international traditional shaving community.
This type of practice is exclusionary and should be prohibited in swap&shop section ...

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 09-18-2019, 05:31 AM
#8
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This problem is not unique to US sellers. I’ve seen plenty of examples of members of forums from the UK and Australia refusing to ship to the United States.

Some of the suggestions above for the motivation behind CONUS are just plain silly.

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 09-18-2019, 05:37 AM
#9
  • Agravic
  • Emeritus
  • Pennsylvania, USA
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(09-18-2019, 05:31 AM)nervosa1901 Wrote: This problem is not unique to US sellers. I’ve seen plenty of examples of members of forums from the UK and Australia refusing to ship to the United States.

Some of the suggestions above for the motivation behind CONUS are just plain silly.

Agreed.

My listings typically state 'CONUS included', and not CONUS only.
I consider international sales on a case-by-case basis, taking into account various factors.

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 09-18-2019, 06:02 AM
#10
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Agravic, 
Various factors? Really? 
Few months ago I WTB from you a FAC blades, your response: "I'm only shipping USA, Sorry".

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 09-18-2019, 06:28 AM
#11
  • iamsms
  • The Patient Disciple
  • New Jersey
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(09-18-2019, 02:25 AM)RazorSteve Wrote:
(09-17-2019, 10:43 PM)iamsms Wrote: I used to offer international shipping at cost. There has been many occasions when 1) potential buyer asks me how much would shipping cost 2) i ask him his address 3) he gets back to me 4) i enter his info into paypal shipping and give him estimate 4) sometimes, the buyer tries to argue, sometimes buyer accepts, sometimes simply refuses to proceed due to shipping cost. 5) finally, weird requests like ‘can you put $$ on shipping label’ 6) queries about why it hasn’t been delivered yet.

with CONUS - all these are unnecessary. I never ask for shipping as I know how much it would cost, delivery is dome within 4 days.

all that being said, if i know the buyer, and i have faith that he will pay me whatever the shipping cost is, I gladly sell and ship it.

so basically, why would I go through extra trouble when I don’t have to. i am not even american, nothing patriotic about my decision.

I frankly fail to understand this as well. It seems to me that all the problems you mention can be avoided by simply stating: "International shipping is X$. I will not change declared customs value. Take it or leave it." Maybe this is not the usual American Xenophobia ™ but it sure does look like it. Odd that no European or Aussie ever seem to have these problems, huh?

But whatever. I read in the news that the US is about to leave the Universal Postal Union which has facilitated international postal service since 1874 so I suppose the American government agrees with CONUS only.

But I have no idea what that $X is. If there was a fixed $X, i would 100% offer it every time. I have shipped stuff for $13.5 to $55 depending on weight and country. I am simply not willing to figure out shipping for some random guy in Poland/England only for him to say “no, that is too much’”.

You are hell bent on finding out ‘xenophobia’ even when after I said I am not American, only living here for the time being.

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 09-18-2019, 06:33 AM
#12
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iamsms ... 
"I am simply not willing to figure out shipping for some random guy in Poland only for him to say “no, that is too much" 

check USPS site, it is a simple LOL
https://www.usps.com/ship/mail-shipping-services.htm

zennhorst ... random guy from Poland

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 09-18-2019, 07:04 AM
#13
  • iamsms
  • The Patient Disciple
  • New Jersey
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(09-18-2019, 06:33 AM)zennhorst Wrote: iamsms ... 
"I am simply not willing to figure out shipping for some random guy in Poland only for him to say “no, that is too much" 

check USPS site, it is a simple LOL
https://www.usps.com/ship/mail-shipping-services.htm

zennhorst ... random guy from Poland

I don't know whether you are intentionally being obtuse or not, but I know how to calculate exact shipping. I am not willing to do that because people often say "no, shipping cost of $14 is too much for a $50 razor" AFTER I went through the trouble of figuring out what the shipping cost is.

With CONUS, i know the exact shipping cost without knowing the address ($3.63 - $7.5, for 90% shaving stuff), and I include that in the price. When someone wants to buy, I give them my PayPal, they pay PayPal G&S, I ship label through PayPal (no handwritten label, customs form necessary), they automatically get tracking, no additional/unnecessary communication needed.

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 09-18-2019, 07:41 AM
#14
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obtuse? ... no comments

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 09-18-2019, 08:05 AM
#15
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I have posted hundreds of bst listings here over the years. I will choose to whom I sell and where I am willing to ship. When something goes wrong in transit (and this has happened to me several times), the buyer places the onus on seller to rectify. Some of us may not be willing to take such risks.

My advice, use a mail forwarding company in the United States. Boom. Now you have a US address and you can get whatever you want.

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 09-18-2019, 08:08 AM
#16
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(09-17-2019, 10:27 PM)Rickenbacker Wrote: I have sometimes wondered why many sellers stipulate CONUS only. Yes, I know what it means, I just wonder why. I myself live in Australia, have a good track record, plenty of references if needed. I pay my money upfront, Australia post is reliable and  provides tracking, I'm quite prepared to pay for the extra postage etc., no increased risk to the seller. Nonetheless yet regularly people politely refuse to sell to me as I don't live in the USA. Is this a patriotic thing, do the wish their razors to stay in the USA, are they concerned with the transaction failing, don't like "foreigners"? Please enlighten me, no judgement, I just don't get it. My money is the same colour.

Lots of folks simply don't want to be bothered with international shipping. Some folks can't understand it, but life is so much easier without hassles. Those folks choose that approach. Some of us have USPS accounts and we do int' shipping frequently, others find it to be a nightmare for whatever reason, but it's their reason and their choice. It's their choice as the seller and not the buyers decision to make for the seller. No one needs to like it, it's just the way it is.

Someone wrote that it shouldn't be allowed in the b/s/t... well, then items won't be up for sale there, pretty simple reaction. No one here would get the opportunity to buy that item or the b/s/t would go underground. There might be other ways around it that I haven't considered. But no one can force others to do what they want. Any force would have an overall chilling effect. Those who think force (through rules) is the answer should reconsider and think what they have access to and not what they don't have access to.

When CONUS is written it only means a CONUS address and not that one needs to reside here. I've shipped things to countries I can't legally ship to and all entirely legal the way it was done. Those who wanted what I have had a CONUS address for me to ship to. What happened to the items after that point is none of my business, but I know that they got shipped out to them by a reshipper. So if someone wants something badly enough there are ways that a buyer  can facilitate it rather than trying to force the seller to comply. I very much doubt that even if someone is from Outer Slobovia, has a Paypal acc't, and a CONUS address that anyone would turn them down due where they reside. Basically, don't blame the seller, but instead be proactive and support your purchasing. That is, make it convenient for the seller if they want or need a CONUS address.

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 09-18-2019, 12:44 PM
#17
  • SCOV
  • Senior Member
  • Minnesota
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USPS First Class Postage cost is simple to most nations that are members of the United Nations:  $15 if under 8oz, $25 if over 8oz and under 32oz.  No shipments to some countries like Yemen (just drones and missiles allowed).  Calculating international shipping is faster than calculating domestic shipping.  I will admit shipping to Canada and Mexico is slightly cheaper and adds complexity.

A customs form is required.  USPS apparently has stopped the on-line completion and postage purchase - PayPal seems to still allow.  Otherwise, a trip to the post office is needed.  

I am happy to purchase from and sell to International locations (other than Yemen).

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 09-18-2019, 01:04 PM
#18
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The only time I shipped overseas, there was an issue. The customs on the buyer's end diverted the package and there was a significant delay. While the buyer was patient, I felt I would have been held responsible.
So, I hate to say it, but it's CONUS only for me. (My ebay sales are the same)

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 09-18-2019, 01:12 PM
#19
  • Johnny
  • Super Moderator
  • Wausau, Wisconsin, USA
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It is the sellers choice, it's just that simple.  Don't read anything more into it than that.

Now my question is, why is this in the Cafe section and not the General section.  I am moving it now.

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 09-18-2019, 01:54 PM
#20
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There is no ulterior motive in a seller's decision to only ship CONUS.  A seller can set whatever terms he wishes.  

Shipping internationally takes some additional steps.  While some may see those additional steps as minor, other may not wish to deal with them.  

There is also the issue of reliable tracking.  Shipping internationally without tracking is risky.  If the item does not get there and the seller cannot prove delivery, PayPal and the credit card issuer will side with the buyer and the seller will take the loss.  USPS International First Class, the most reasonably priced option, does not include tracking.  The USPS/FedEx/UPS options offering reliable tracking are too expensive relative to the cost of most shaving items.  I would not have any issue with, or take offense at, an international seller telling me that he would not ship to the USA.

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