10-20-2019, 09:35 AM
#1
  • BigT
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Hi folks!  Any thoughts, good or bad, about this razor being released Nov 1 on Amazon?  I have no link, but it's easy to find.

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 10-20-2019, 10:22 AM
#2
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My own feeling about it is sort of two fold.  I'm kind of happy to see Gillette putting something out that acknowledges the classic wet shaving world that we inhabit on these forums.  But that's about all the positive I can throw at it.  I'm disappointed that the head appears to be an EJ DE89 clone.  I would not doubt that EJ makes it for Gillette.  And the handle is a reproduction of the Common Bar handle, quite possibly the worst vintage handle Gillette ever made.  And to make matters worse, both head and handle appear to be made of zamak.  At this stage of my shaving life I'm only buying razors that either offer me a new shaving experience with a new design or it is the perfect must have design and it is made of copper, stainless or titanium so that it lasts forever.  I'm not interested in disposable stuff at this point.  So I'm not a buyer.  I suppose it's good in that it could entice cart users to enter the double edge fray.  So, I guess that's a second good point to it.  I think it's meant to be an entry level razor at that price point.  The case while "cute" looks cheap.  I hope lots of people buy it and it causes Gillette to begin to develop a new higher end razor that draws on it's heritage in a more meaningful way.

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 10-20-2019, 11:37 AM
#3
  • ajc347
  • Senior Member
  • Exeter, UK
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I'm surprised that Gillette have decided to re-enter the DE marketplace given that they know that greater profit margins lie in the production and sale of carts. When I mentioned this on another forum it was suggested that it might be because they can state that they have a non-plastic razor and blades to offer people who are concerned with the use of disposable plastics. I would, though, be very interested to see how they would expect to make money in what is now a very crowded marketplace.

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 10-20-2019, 12:32 PM
#4
  • SCOV
  • Senior Member
  • Minnesota
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I am not sure a "pre-order on Amazon" equals getting back in the DE market.  When I see the razor available at Target, Gillette website, and Bullgoose, my opinion will change.

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 10-20-2019, 01:32 PM
#5
  • BigT
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(10-20-2019, 10:22 AM)MntnMan62 Wrote: My own feeling about it is sort of two fold.  I'm kind of happy to see Gillette putting something out that acknowledges the classic wet shaving world that we inhabit on these forums.  But that's about all the positive I can throw at it.  I'm disappointed that the head appears to be an EJ DE89 clone.  I would not doubt that EJ makes it for Gillette.  And the handle is a reproduction of the Common Bar handle, quite possibly the worst vintage handle Gillette ever made.  And to make matters worse, both head and handle appear to be made of zamak.  At this stage of my shaving life I'm only buying razors that either offer me a new shaving experience with a new design or it is the perfect must have design and it is made of copper, stainless or titanium so that it lasts forever.  I'm not interested in disposable stuff at this point.  So I'm not a buyer.  I suppose it's good in that it could entice cart users to enter the double edge fray.  So, I guess that's a second good point to it.  I think it's meant to be an entry level razor at that price point.  The case while "cute" looks cheap.  I hope lots of people buy it and it causes Gillette to begin to develop a new higher end razor that draws on it's heritage in a more meaningful way.

Yeah, I hear that. Looked kind of cheap for a "Heritage" offering to me. I'm surprised Gillette (well, P&G) even gave this a thought. I think it is just a holiday marketing ploy. And obviously it's a zamak razor that I suspect was made in china, IMO. I'll pass for now as well.

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 10-20-2019, 02:11 PM
#6
  • chazt
  • Senior Member
  • Queens, NY
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(10-20-2019, 11:37 AM)ajc347 Wrote: I'm surprised that Gillette have decided to re-enter the DE marketplace given that they know that greater profit margins lie in the production and sale of carts. When I mentioned this on another forum it was suggested that it might be because they can state that they have a non-plastic razor and blades to offer people who are concerned with the use of disposable plastics. I would, though, be very interested to see how they would expect to make money in what is now a very crowded marketplace.

Yes, I don’t disagree with your points. Perhaps they’ll rely on the history of their name and current marketing clout.

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 10-21-2019, 04:18 AM
#7
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I for one don't think it's a passing fancy and I don't suppose Gillette (they don't consult me) does either.  For a long time I've wondered about how "big" was this wet shaving market.  Certainly we can postulate about the hard-core (wackos) like me who own years worth of soap etc, spend time on this forum, and live for the "new release".  But I'm guessing we may be the minority.  I personally have introduced about two dozen people to the DE, all of whom like it, only one of which visits any shave related sites.  I've also watched Amazon ( who is the seller for the Gillette offering) and very few of our stalwart makers offer their wares there but there are a lot of offerings.  Gillette still makes the lions share of DE blades and only really ever sold the ever-evolving cart razors to affluent markets.  Harry's and Dollar Shave showed them weakness in their flank and they came with a program of their own.  Proctor & Gambel, Gillette, didn't purchase The Art of Shaving intent on losing money and I don't suppose this razor is a walk down nostalgia lane either.  Furthermore, I don't suppose most DE shavers own any $100 razors, know anything about zamac, or care if it's a Jagger clone made in China.  This is not an "entrance" into the DE space, as they never really left it.  This may be a return to King Camp Gillettes marketing of giving a razor away cheap and sell blades for profit.  This time however, they will have to do it without patent protection.

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 10-21-2019, 05:10 AM
#8
  • Agravic
  • Emeritus
  • Pennsylvania, USA
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It appears to be no different than other cheaply made zamak razors, that are less expensive to buy if one desires such.  Pass.

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 10-21-2019, 06:33 AM
#9
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Since Amazon offers free return I am giving it a try. Maybe P&G is using this as a test to see if there really is a market.

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 10-21-2019, 10:19 AM
#10
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(10-21-2019, 05:10 AM)Agravic Wrote: It appears to be no different than other cheaply made zamak razors, that are less expensive to buy if one desires such.  Pass.


Completely agree.

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 10-21-2019, 11:33 AM
#11
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I'll pass on this one.  

It may get new people into the hobby, and some of them will move up to better razors.  However, I don't see the thinking behind this release.  If they convert guys to DE shaving, they're cannibalizing cartridge sales, which are far more profitable.

Gillette developed the Guard razor, a cheap cartridge razor, to get men in India away from DE razors.  Why would Gillette try to get American men away from the Fusion and into DE blades?

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 10-21-2019, 11:59 AM
#12
  • Agravic
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  • Pennsylvania, USA
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(10-21-2019, 11:33 AM)TheLegalRazor Wrote: I'll pass on this one.  

It may get new people into the hobby, and some of them will move up to better razors.  However, I don't see the thinking behind this release.  If they convert guys to DE shaving, they're cannibalizing cartridge sales, which are far more profitable.

Gillette developed the Guard razor, a cheap cartridge razor, to get men in India away from DE razors.  Why would Gillette try to get American men away from the Fusion and into DE blades?

The only thing 'Gillette' about this whole thing is the label on the case.  That's it.

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 10-21-2019, 12:37 PM
#13
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(10-21-2019, 11:33 AM)TheLegalRazor Wrote: I'll pass on this one.  

It may get new people into the hobby, and some of them will move up to better razors.  However, I don't see the thinking behind this release.  If they convert guys to DE shaving, they're cannibalizing cartridge sales, which are far more profitable.

Gillette developed the Guard razor, a cheap cartridge razor, to get men in India away from DE razors.  Why would Gillette try to get American men away from the Fusion and into DE blades?

Maybe they are realizing that in the US at least people are finding double edge razors and some are dropping the carts for the DE.  Rather than just sit back and lose those customers, they may be thinking that it's better to join them than fight them.  This could be their first step in the process.  A trial balloon if you will to see how it sells.  They may not get themselves into full fledged production but will do what they are doing here which is partnering to keep their foot in the pond.  And if they find that there is real money to be made from better quality razors, they could just buy up a smaller razor company and voilla they are in the business.  Obviously I'm jumping the gun here quite a bit.

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 10-21-2019, 02:32 PM
#14
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(10-21-2019, 12:37 PM)MntnMan62 Wrote: Maybe they are realizing that in the US at least people are finding double edge razors and some are dropping the carts for the DE.  Rather than just sit back and lose those customers, they may be thinking that it's better to join them than fight them.  This could be their first step in the process.  A trial balloon if you will to see how it sells.  They may not get themselves into full fledged production but will do what they are doing here which is partnering to keep their foot in the pond.  And if they find that there is real money to be made from better quality razors, they could just buy up a smaller razor company and voilla they are in the business.  Obviously I'm jumping the gun here quite a bit.

I think in my brain that's pretty close MntnMan62.  Gillette is certainly not going to move away from the cart market BUT they get to see data we are not privy to.  Perhaps they see overall sales shrinking and wish to sell what they got.  And they have a ton of DE blades.  They own factories that are making them everyday.  This isn't an unknown arena for them maybe to the extent it would be to most.  If anyone on the planet has good shaver data it HAS to be Gillette.  As far as the zamak razor goes, they are not trying to sell them to us whackadoos that own multiples of hundred-plus-dollar razors.  They are going for a totally different market that I'm guessing they already tested. They are not intending, at least right now to break into our small conclave of enthusiasts.  They are looking much broader.  How many of us here on the forums use VanDerHagen or Conk but those companies survive.  They are selling soap to someone and I'm guessing that someone is a fella who shaves everyday, doesn't know or care about Shavenook (poor sap), but doesn't want to be on the ever-increasing cartridge train.  These guys don't know how to find Barrister and Mann, or Asylum, or Wolfman, and they don't care.  I don't know how big our hobby market is but I don't suppose it's a pimple on Gillettes collective butt.  This move is totally directed to someone other than you and me.  I for one hope they succeed because as more fellas become more engaged they will find our artisans and give them better streams of income meaning more stability for me (selfish that way).  Gillettes market is a worldwide market and although like everyone, they are capable of really bone head decisions (I'm thinking of the heated carts here), their data has to be better than anyone else's. Vertical integration is the mantra these days and Gillette already provides cartridge razor guys everything from prep to post.  Makes sense they would also look at DE in that way too.   I'm not in for the razor as stainless and vintage Gillette is my jam but I am very interested in seeing how this maker of my favorite DE blades navigates this water.

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 10-21-2019, 03:40 PM
#15
  • chazt
  • Senior Member
  • Queens, NY
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(10-21-2019, 02:32 PM)Lipripper60 Wrote:
(10-21-2019, 12:37 PM)MntnMan62 Wrote: Maybe they are realizing that in the US at least people are finding double edge razors and some are dropping the carts for the DE.  Rather than just sit back and lose those customers, they may be thinking that it's better to join them than fight them.  This could be their first step in the process.  A trial balloon if you will to see how it sells.  They may not get themselves into full fledged production but will do what they are doing here which is partnering to keep their foot in the pond.  And if they find that there is real money to be made from better quality razors, they could just buy up a smaller razor company and voilla they are in the business.  Obviously I'm jumping the gun here quite a bit.

I think in my brain that's pretty close MntnMan62.  Gillette is certainly not going to move away from the cart market BUT they get to see data we are not privy to.  Perhaps they see overall sales shrinking and wish to sell what they got.  And they have a ton of DE blades.  They own factories that are making them everyday.  This isn't an unknown arena for them maybe to the extent it would be to most.  If anyone on the planet has good shaver data it HAS to be Gillette.  As far as the zamak razor goes, they are not trying to sell them to us whackadoos that own multiples of hundred-plus-dollar razors.  They are going for a totally different market that I'm guessing they already tested. They are not intending, at least right now to break into our small conclave of enthusiasts.  They are looking much broader.  How many of us here on the forums use VanDerHagen or Conk but those companies survive.  They are selling soap to someone and I'm guessing that someone is a fella who shaves everyday, doesn't know or care about Shavenook (poor sap), but doesn't want to be on the ever-increasing cartridge train.  These guys don't know how to find Barrister and Mann, or Asylum, or Wolfman, and they don't care.  I don't know how big our hobby market is but I don't suppose it's a pimple on Gillettes collective butt.  This move is totally directed to someone other than you and me.  I for one hope they succeed because as more fellas become more engaged they will find our artisans and give them better streams of income meaning more stability for me (selfish that way).  Gillettes market is a worldwide market and although like everyone, they are capable of really bone head decisions (I'm thinking of the heated carts here), their data has to be better than anyone else's. Vertical integration is the mantra these days and Gillette already provides cartridge razor guys everything from prep to post.  Makes sense they would also look at DE in that way too.   I'm not in for the razor as stainless and vintage Gillette is my jam but I am very interested in seeing how this maker of my favorite DE blades navigates this water.

Gentlemen, these are both excellent posts. Your comments are logical and well stated. Nicely done!

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 10-21-2019, 03:56 PM
#16
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(10-21-2019, 03:40 PM)chazt Wrote:
(10-21-2019, 02:32 PM)Lipripper60 Wrote:
(10-21-2019, 12:37 PM)MntnMan62 Wrote: Maybe they are realizing that in the US at least people are finding double edge razors and some are dropping the carts for the DE.  Rather than just sit back and lose those customers, they may be thinking that it's better to join them than fight them.  This could be their first step in the process.  A trial balloon if you will to see how it sells.  They may not get themselves into full fledged production but will do what they are doing here which is partnering to keep their foot in the pond.  And if they find that there is real money to be made from better quality razors, they could just buy up a smaller razor company and voilla they are in the business.  Obviously I'm jumping the gun here quite a bit.

I think in my brain that's pretty close MntnMan62.  Gillette is certainly not going to move away from the cart market BUT they get to see data we are not privy to.  Perhaps they see overall sales shrinking and wish to sell what they got.  And they have a ton of DE blades.  They own factories that are making them everyday.  This isn't an unknown arena for them maybe to the extent it would be to most.  If anyone on the planet has good shaver data it HAS to be Gillette.  As far as the zamak razor goes, they are not trying to sell them to us whackadoos that own multiples of hundred-plus-dollar razors.  They are going for a totally different market that I'm guessing they already tested. They are not intending, at least right now to break into our small conclave of enthusiasts.  They are looking much broader.  How many of us here on the forums use VanDerHagen or Conk but those companies survive.  They are selling soap to someone and I'm guessing that someone is a fella who shaves everyday, doesn't know or care about Shavenook (poor sap), but doesn't want to be on the ever-increasing cartridge train.  These guys don't know how to find Barrister and Mann, or Asylum, or Wolfman, and they don't care.  I don't know how big our hobby market is but I don't suppose it's a pimple on Gillettes collective butt.  This move is totally directed to someone other than you and me.  I for one hope they succeed because as more fellas become more engaged they will find our artisans and give them better streams of income meaning more stability for me (selfish that way).  Gillettes market is a worldwide market and although like everyone, they are capable of really bone head decisions (I'm thinking of the heated carts here), their data has to be better than anyone else's. Vertical integration is the mantra these days and Gillette already provides cartridge razor guys everything from prep to post.  Makes sense they would also look at DE in that way too.   I'm not in for the razor as stainless and vintage Gillette is my jam but I am very interested in seeing how this maker of my favorite DE blades navigates this water.

Gentlemen, these are both excellent posts. Your comments are logical and well stated. Nicely done!

Lipripper60 is the eloquent one here.  I definitely agree with his view on the subject.

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 10-21-2019, 04:09 PM
#17
  • SCOV
  • Senior Member
  • Minnesota
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The Wilkinson Sword DE is sold in some big stores (supermarkets in UK for example).  Reviews are low cost and decent razor.

Perhaps Gillette has learned from Wilkinson and testing the market.  Packaged to make a nice gift for Amazon holiday shoppers.  We will see what tomorrow brings.

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 10-25-2019, 07:52 AM
#18
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HERE is more information and my initial observations of a pre-launch Heritage razor I received.

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 10-25-2019, 08:51 AM
#19
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(10-25-2019, 07:52 AM)mantic59 Wrote: HERE is more information and my initial observations of a pre-launch Heritage razor I received.

Interesting article.  Thanks for sharing, Mark.

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 10-25-2019, 10:42 AM
#20
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A few quotes from Mark's article, along with my guesses and assessments:
Quote:What materials is the razor made out of?
The razor (head and handle) is made out of a chrome-plated alloy.

Zamak or a closely related alloy, most likely. Nothing wrong with that per see, I got a couple of Zamak razors and they are good razors.

Quote:Is Gillette planning any sort of advertising campaign for this razor?
Not beyond what you see on Amazon.

Most likely they are testing the marked. If this sells well (not sure what metric Gillette measures success by), we can likely expect more Gillette 'Heritage' razors.

Quote:...the head is manufactured in Germany.

TDIL that there is such a thing as Procter & Gamble Manufacturing GmbH Smile

Quote:My razor has a “4” etched on the underside of the razor head’s top cap.  Is this a new date code similar to the one used on vintage Gillette razors?
There is no intentional date coding on the razor.

Then what do the 4 mean? Is it a lot number? Does it identify a certain production line? Model number? We need more intel information Tongue

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