02-19-2020, 09:16 AM
#1
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First of all I'd like to say that I'm one of the biggest supporters of Pannacrema. I bought my first tub in 2014. I bought my first pair of Nuavias in September 2015 and made some of the first reviews online with lathering videos. Prior to them, there were only a few words about these soaps on forums, so I just "believed in" them and proceed to a purchase of two very expensive soaps. Until this day, I've tried pretty much all of their offerings. I was a very satisfied customer and paid for everything I got. No samples for free or anything similar. They were always helpful and answered each and every email I sent to them. They were not that many but just saying.

Last year, a close friend of mine made a purchase from an online European vendor, I can't remember who that vendor was, and asked me if I needed anything. I told him to buy me two Nuavias, a Blu and a Rossa, as a backup. I gave him the money of course when he received them. I tried them to be sure that nothing has changed and was using them regularly for some time.

A few days ago, I decided to shave again with them. I'm talking about my second pair that was bought in 2019. I have many products and don't use all of them. My rotation is really extensive. Some remain untouched for months. This was the case with this pair. Well, I noticed something really strange. For some reason, the soaps have gone much harder to the point that I can't press them with my fingers. This is a typical dehydration issue. A small parenthesis here. I take great care of my products, I leave them open after each use and put the lid on at least 24h later.

I sent an email with photos to Pannacrema and Marina was really kind to answer me within a few hours. A prompt reply is something I really appreciate. Marina offered some advices on how to properly lather the soap. I thought I'd follow them (exactly 3g of soap and 7ml of water), even though I know how to lather these. I've been using them since 2015. I'm not a newbie. It didn't work. Anyway, we exchanged 7-8 emails. I bet Marina still thinks that it's a user error, but believe me it's not. It's a mystery to them what happened with these. I was offered a piece of a fresh batch to test it, but kindly declined it. Shipping from Italy is not cheap and I see no reason to try a fresh batch, it gives me no solution to the problem I experience. I don't want free soap, I have plenty of soaps and creams to shave with and I'm not a cheap ass. I was also asked to send a small piece of each to examine them, but still waiting for a shipping address.

These soaps don't give anymore a dense, protective and creamy lather. The lather I get is full of small bubbles, it's what I call airy. Fully disappointed. I've tried almost everything to get a proper lather, like throwing lots of warm water to soften the surface, scooping some out, trying with different brushes and hair types etc., but nothing worked well. I get the same thin and airy lather. It's very strange. The soaps have become worthless within a few months. I had not used these for about 3 months and the storage conditions were great, along with my other products. Fortunately, my other soaps still perform like they used to, no changes.

Any ideas on how to save these (very expensive) soaps?

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 02-19-2020, 09:54 AM
#2
  • Steve56
  • Senior Member
  • Knoxville, TN
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You might get a better answer/solution if you sent them a sample of your soap? It sounds like it’s just not loading enough soap. 

Good luck Nick!

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 02-19-2020, 10:03 AM
#3
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(02-19-2020, 09:54 AM)Steve56 Wrote: You might get a better answer/solution if you sent them a sample of your soap? It sounds like it’s just not loading enough soap. 

Good luck Nick!
Steve, I've tried using much more product than usual, adjusting the product-water ratio, but still the lather is not great.

I've tried almost everything. Something has changed in these soaps.

I will try to upload some pics to see what I'm talking about.

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 02-19-2020, 10:18 AM
#4
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(Nuavia Blu)


I get lots of lather. It's not a "use more product" situation.

Someone could also say use less water by seeing the photos, but trust me, I tried that too.



The consistency has radically changed and it does not give me a dense lather anymore.

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 02-19-2020, 10:19 AM
#5
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Nick,

I think Claus was having similar issues?

I emailed the artisan, and they assured me...no change in recipe. My soaps bough approx 14 months ago are still producing very nice lather.

Perhaps I should use em up faster!

Vr

Matt

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 02-19-2020, 10:23 AM
#6
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And this photo shows how hard is now the soap.

20200217_210212<script async src="https://embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8">


I pressed the little spatula really hard to get some out.

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 02-19-2020, 10:26 AM
#7
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(02-19-2020, 10:19 AM)Ols67 Wrote: Nick,

I think Claus was having similar issues?

I emailed the artisan, and they assured me...no change in recipe.  My soaps bough approx 14 months ago are still producing very nice lather.

Perhaps I should use em up faster!

Vr

Matt

Matt, I think that Claus said that the newer didn't perform well for him implying that there was a formula change.

Mine was performing as usual until lately.

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 02-19-2020, 10:31 AM
#8
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And this is the Rossa.

20200217_210319<script async src="https://embedr.flickr.com/assets/client-code.js" charset="utf-8">

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 02-19-2020, 10:49 AM
#9
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I have soaps that have hardened over time but all work well. I'm going to check my Nuavia that are also hard.

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 02-19-2020, 11:11 AM
#10
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While some of my soaps have hardened - to many soaps, just one face - I've not have any that have changed properties when it comes to lathering... well, apart from a BodyShop croap I had 8 years or so ago that went rancid.

The only thing I can think of to explain it is that the soap underwent a chemical change - a second cure as it were. Someone more knowledgeable than me when it comes to soap chemistry can probably say if that is even possible or not.

Regardless of the cause it's a pain in the behind. I'm sorry it happened to you Nikos.

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 02-19-2020, 12:02 PM
#11
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(02-19-2020, 11:11 AM)WegianWarrior Wrote: While some of my soaps have hardened - to many soaps, just one face - I've not have any that have changed properties when it comes to lathering... well, apart from a BodyShop croap I had 8 years or so ago that went rancid.

The only thing I can think of to explain it is that the soap underwent a chemical change - a second cure as it were. Someone more knowledgeable than me when it comes to soap chemistry can probably say if that is even possible or not.

Regardless of the cause it's a pain in the behind. I'm sorry it happened to you Nikos.
Thanks Hans, I appreciate it, my friend!

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 02-19-2020, 12:03 PM
#12
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(02-19-2020, 10:26 AM)nikos.a Wrote:
(02-19-2020, 10:19 AM)Ols67 Wrote: Nick,

I think Claus was having similar issues?

I emailed the artisan, and they assured me...no change in recipe.  My soaps bough approx 14 months ago are still producing very nice lather.

Perhaps I should use em up faster!

Vr

Matt

Matt, I think that Claus said that the newer didn't perform well for him implying that there was a formula change.

Mine was performing as usual until lately.

Sorry Nick...either way...this is terrible. Uggghhhh!

Vr

Matt

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 02-19-2020, 12:09 PM
#13
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My intention is not to bash the company or badmouth them. I am sure they read us. I'm just looking for answers. I can't put the blame 100% on them because this was out of their control. They offer a soap with no preservatives, parabens etc., so I believe they can't be sure how a soap will react months after the purchase. They just have no idea what happened to the soaps. They insisted that a soap can't turn bad so soon.

On the contrary, I still have some Nostalgia left from 2015 that lathers lika a dream. But this has tallow... I guess this plays a role.

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 02-19-2020, 12:12 PM
#14
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(02-19-2020, 12:03 PM)Ols67 Wrote:
(02-19-2020, 10:26 AM)nikos.a Wrote:
(02-19-2020, 10:19 AM)Ols67 Wrote: Nick,

I think Claus was having similar issues?

I emailed the artisan, and they assured me...no change in recipe.  My soaps bough approx 14 months ago are still producing very nice lather.

Perhaps I should use em up faster!

Vr

Matt

Matt, I think that Claus said that the newer didn't perform well for him implying that there was a formula change.

Mine was performing as usual until lately.

Sorry Nick...either way...this is terrible. Uggghhhh!

Vr

Matt
Thanks, Matt.

I suggest you use them more often! Enjoy them.

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 02-19-2020, 12:48 PM
#15
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I’ve noticed some challenges lathering this soap as well (my bowl is 3-4 years old). Given the unique formula of this soap I wonder if it is undergoing a chemical change.

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 02-19-2020, 12:52 PM
#16
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(02-19-2020, 12:48 PM)david1201 Wrote: I’ve noticed some challenges lathering this soap as well (my bowl is 3-4 years old). Given the unique formula of this soap I wonder if it is undergoing a chemical change.
Wow. I'm not alone here.

Maybe I got some old stock?

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 02-19-2020, 03:51 PM
#17
  • Steve56
  • Senior Member
  • Knoxville, TN
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I’m looking for my Nuavia Blue box, but when I got it, the ingredient list appeared to be basically MdC with a couple of additives, maybe calendula/marigold? 

I have MdC that’s 7 years old and as hard as it’s going to get (brain bowl), and it still lathers like day 1. Nuavia should not change I think.

I know that Manuel (Eufros) apparently got a bad batch of coconut oil (Nuavia is a coconut oil soap) and made soaps that had problems. I actually had one of these PIFed to me, and sure enough, it did not lather very well. Maybe a bad batch of ingredient(s) that deteriorated over time?

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 02-19-2020, 04:09 PM
#18
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Bad batch....happens.

Sent from my SM-G955U1 using Tapatalk

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 02-19-2020, 08:39 PM
#19
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Nikos for Christ sake !

You had serious problems believing what I told you in another thread some months ago.

And now you experience the EXACT SAME thing as I did !!

I thought it was a reformulation error, because I only used the new version.
I have so many 100’s soaps, that I was too lazy to find my older 2015-2016 Nuavia from my cupboard.

But since you and others had a hard time believing me (and I have 9 years experience in loading shaving soaps from 40-50-60 manufacturers) I gave up and just concluded my formerly NUMERO UNO shaving soap from Nuavia now is the worst performer in my huge den of soaps.

Can you now see I was right all along !?!

Why would I bash Pannacrema/Nuavia and Marco ? Not my style.

But when all my 4 Nuavia turns from the best shaving soap in the world into a bubbly airy MWF like shaving soap that dries out fast on my skin, I feel I need to post my opinion and honest view. It’s all my Nuavia’s, that performs poorly. The Palmolive shave stick I bought for €3 in my local supermarket performs far far far better than all my stash of Nuavia. I only keep my Nuavia for the containers, which I will reuse for other shaving soaps.

I’m NEVER EVER buying Pannacrema or Nuavia soaps again. It’s cr_ap. I’m being honest here. Some things happen with the soap over time. When fresh it’s the best soap in the world. After 1-2-3 years it turns into one if the most lousy performing shaving soaps you’ll ever find.

Now you understand, that I was right all along.

You owe me an apology.

I’m sorry I called your post less intelligent back then, but I felt you didn’t trust my words. You know very well, that I know how to load a shaving soap. I know you do too. We both have years of experience doing this.

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 02-19-2020, 10:38 PM
#20
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This is a shot in the dark but here we go. When Nuavia came out years ago, I was semi intrigued but merely for the simplicity in formula using very little with the inclusion of the calendula extract, also know as marigold (pot). I'm not sure I have used one that I can remember off the top of my head. Anyways, I just looked up the oil shelf life of it and it says 12-24 months. Let me be clear, I only bring this up as the only ingredient that is less common in a base. Everything else chosen in ingredients are used in many base formulas and have their own respective shelf lives.

If I recall, is a fresh pot of the Nuavia soap soft and sticky? Or is it a soft soap that is on the firmer, less tacky side? I can't really tell by the pics of the scooped soap using the little utensil how hard it is. If you say it's hard in consistency, I believe you. I'm sure you had to scrape it but maybe it had something that went rancid. It happens and I think we have all been there. I've bought some used soap that was spoiled fats. The soap maker that made it has made good and bad soaps just like every other soap maker. The issue is as a customer we have to determine how much we expect that won't happen. I think there is always a chance that we can buy a dud but we take the chance often to explore the hobby.

As many in this thread have been shaving a long time and doing traditional wet shaving enough to know what is important in this shave. I haven't used Nuavia once but if I did buy it, maybe it would be more beneficial to use it entirely if the performance is optimal when consumed fresh. To be honest, 99.9% of the time I use a milled soap (ends up being fairly firm or hard) for my shave. I've been using the Italian stuff consistently for years and maybe the shelf life is labeled the same and is probably better now rather than to shave with it 2-5 years later. I don't want to say milled soap has increased shelf life as I don't know at all. 

Is a lesson in these types of threads that "rotation" of software only works to a degree when it increases beyond a certain point. I still have a large tub full of soaps that are all (not in use) sitting around. Maybe they all are bad by now but honestly, I think it is fine. Yes, they are slowly aging and diminishing in one way for sure. The value keeps decreasing by not using them and having them. So I have lost all hype in wet shaving because I outspent beyond my means. Now the fun in it is using the gear I have. Still not bad 1 bit, all the stuff I can use is what I can use for any wet shaving need and beyond. So many of have had it all and bought it all but it comes done to knowing what your skin responds to the best. You only find that out when you learn to spend time with products and evaluate your various results.

For my experience, the value I get in software comes from consuming it after purchase to see how my skin benefits. Here's a question for those that might think there Nuavia is bad. If you shaved with the lather, is the compaction lousy but still gentle on the skin or does it give a reaction? Is it totally unusable?

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