03-15-2020, 07:08 PM
#1
User Info
Hey watch guys,
I came across a Pagani Design watch on AliExpress while shopping for brush knots.  For $60 I thought what the heck...
It’s a nice heavy and great looking watch.  It’s a mechanical self-winding Seiko NH35A movement.  I don’t have a lot of experience with self winding watches, but as I understand it, that Seiko movement is a reasonably good one??
Turns out it was running extremely Slow, then really fast, like 1 second per minute.  I disputed the purchase at AliExpress and got my money back.  I have taken it to the jeweler and had it demagnetized.  The jeweler said it was working fine.  It did for a little while, and it is back to running fast again.  I tested it with a compass and it doesn’t appear to be magnetized again. (And I bought a Chinese demag tool and tried it.)  Still fast.  
How do I fix this “free” watch?  I like the darned thing and I just can’t throw it in the trash.
Pete

[Image: d1jPhZe.jpg]

4 222
Reply
 03-15-2020, 09:11 PM
#2
User Info
Automatic watches that aren’t wound up enough go too fast.
The problem with your watch may be completely different, but I would wind it up manually and see if it is still too fast.

0 497
Reply
 03-16-2020, 05:36 AM
#3
User Info
(03-15-2020, 09:11 PM)apogee. Wrote: Automatic watches that aren’t wound up enough go too fast.
The problem with your watch may be completely different, but I would wind it up manually and see if it is still too fast.
Thank You!  And the only way to manually wind this watch is to move it around?  Right?

4 222
Reply
 03-16-2020, 05:52 AM
#4
  • garyg
  • Senior Member
  • Great Lakes
User Info
A brand new automatic will change its running rate as it breaks in.  In the meantime, you can experiment with changing the rate according to how the watch rests when not on the wrist - for example flat on its back generally speeds them up, crown up on the side slows it down.  For more drastic regulation - If you take off the case back there will be an adjustment screw for the running rate +/-.  Very small increments here.    I have a couple Seiko autos, and they tend to run fast.  BTW that Seiko NH35A movement is hand-windable

[Image: BwcMM_mvta.jpg]

73 729
Reply
 03-16-2020, 06:09 AM
#5
User Info
The joy of owning a watch - kinda like owning a car. Everything needs fixing. $60 investment up front, not bad. Some self-winding watches go for a ton more. I can only imagine what maintenance costs.

67 1,975
Reply
 03-16-2020, 07:29 AM
#6
User Info
Interesting...I’ve had a jeweler tell me that no auto winders were able to be wound by the crown.  
Now the damned thing stops until I tap it on my hand.  
Is it possible to overwind a mech watch?

4 222
Reply
 03-16-2020, 08:08 AM
#7
  • garyg
  • Senior Member
  • Great Lakes
User Info
(03-16-2020, 07:29 AM)PATRIOT Wrote: Interesting...I’ve had a jeweler tell me that no auto winders were able to be wound by the crown.  
Now the damned thing stops until I tap it on my hand.  
Is it possible to overwind a mech watch?


You need to find a new jeweler.  Some movements don't handwind (I have a Seiko Orange Monster that doesn't), some do (from Rolex to Russian Scuba Dude cheapies),.  I have no idea whether you can overwind yours, but I'd just guess you can't by wearing it anyway.  

Overhaul costs are astronomical, a Rolex rehab will run $500+

73 729
Reply
 03-16-2020, 11:43 AM
#8
User Info
I have nothing but automatics ranging from Rolex to Seiko and no winder is designed to wind a watch if set to proper TPD it’s only designed to keep it wound so when putting a watch on a winder you need to fully wind it

Here’s a good read on winders

https://www.google.com/amp/s/blog.crowna...ch-winder/


Also note that unless you’re watch has serious complications for setting and you have multiple watches it’s best to leave off a winder and just wind and set when needed, I rotate watches weekly and store my unworn ones in a canvas roll and just wind and set for the week. Some will argue the fact on wear and tear but for me I only wear one watch for a week and then it sits for a month while I go thru my weekly rotation so why have them spinning on a winder wearing down internals, again this is all subjective on wear but I will do what I can to reduce my service intervals

As far as your watch goes I would fully wind it and wear it for at least 8 hrs a day and after a week check the time and however fast or slow it is divide it by the days worn and that will give you a daily average of +/- SPD but the movement it has is not COSC certified so it’s not going to run within that spec.

8 1,825
Reply
 03-16-2020, 12:29 PM
#9
User Info
(03-16-2020, 11:43 AM)Panther308 Wrote: I have nothing but automatics ranging from Rolex to Seiko and no winder is designed to wind a watch if set to proper TPD it’s only designed to keep it wound so when putting a watch on a winder you need to fully wind it

Here’s a good read on winders

https://www.google.com/amp/s/blog.crowna...ch-winder/


Also note that unless you’re watch has serious complications for setting and you have multiple watches it’s best to leave off a winder and just wind and set when needed, I rotate watches weekly and store my unworn ones in a canvas roll and just wind and set for the week. Some will argue the fact on wear and tear but for me I only wear one watch for a week and then it sits for a month while I go thru my weekly rotation so why have them spinning on a winder wearing down internals, again this is all subjective on wear but I will do what I can to reduce my service intervals

As far as your watch goes I would fully wind it and wear it for at least 8 hrs a day and after  a week check the time and however fast or slow it is divide it by the days worn and that will give you a daily average of +/- SPD but the movement it has is not COSC certified so it’s not going to run within that spec.
Not sure what TPD, SPD or COSC are?
I have no intention of using a winder.  I have no problem wearing this watch everyday, unless I’m always 20-30 minutes ahead.  I just want to know the accurate time.  Right now, I don’t know what’s causing it, but this watch is off by 24 minutes per day.  
I’d either like to fix it, figure out what I’m doing wrong, or throw it out and go back to using my phone, wall clock or ask Alexa what time it is.

4 222
Reply
 03-16-2020, 12:54 PM
#10
  • garyg
  • Senior Member
  • Great Lakes
User Info
Before you add to the waste stream, try and regulate it.  The adjustment screw is pictured in the photo above.  If you aren't comfortable unscrewing the back yourself, look for a watchmaker, not an uninformed jeweler ..  the Seikos are good low priced movements, but in my experience tend to run fast (my Orange Monster, for example, ran +20 seconds a day until regulated properly)

SPD is I think Seconds Per Day
TPD is a winder spec, Turns Per Day I believe
COSC is the chronometer standard of Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres  -4/+6 Seconds per day

73 729
Reply
 03-16-2020, 02:34 PM
#11
User Info
Thanks Gary!
I’m going to wear it for a day or two, then try to adjust it with my itty bitty screwdriver.
Any clever way to unscrew the back?

4 222
Reply
 03-16-2020, 03:49 PM
#12
User Info
(03-16-2020, 12:54 PM)garyg Wrote: Before you add to the waste stream, try and regulate it.  The adjustment screw is pictured in the photo above.  If you aren't comfortable unscrewing the back yourself, look for a watchmaker, not an uninformed jeweler ..  the Seikos are good low priced movements, but in my experience tend to run fast (my Orange Monster, for example, ran +20 seconds a day until regulated properly)

SPD is I think Seconds Per Day
TPD is a winder spec, Turns Per Day I believe
COSC is the chronometer standard of Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres  -4/+6 Seconds per day

Thanks for posting that info, if you do decide to pursue a winder I would set it at 700 TPD to start and see what it yields also here is some info on the movement but 24 minutes a day is way out of spec for the movement, if you do decide to try and regulate it yourself you will have to get a timegrapher to check your work or you will have to do trial and error and for what you paid for the watch it might be better to take to a local shop and have them regulate it as it would not take very long to do.

[Image: ucOPsaI.jpg]

8 1,825
Reply
 03-16-2020, 04:04 PM
#13
User Info
Yeah?  So a watchmaker/jeweler could adjust it while “testing” it?

4 222
Reply
 03-16-2020, 04:05 PM
#14
User Info
YOU GUYS ROCK!
Thank you all!!
Pete

4 222
Reply
 03-16-2020, 04:30 PM
#15
  • garyg
  • Senior Member
  • Great Lakes
User Info
(03-16-2020, 02:34 PM)PATRIOT Wrote: Thanks Gary!
I’m going to wear it for a day or two, then try to adjust it with my itty bitty screwdriver.
Any clever way to unscrew the back?


Sure Pete - Depends on the watch back - most need a sort of pin wrench - here's the very basic one I have, that I've used on vintage Accutrons, Seiko's, Vostok's .. never on a Rolex ..

Try leaving it vertical with the crown pointing up overnight & see if that brings it down any.  And when you do get to that adjustment screw inside VERY small adjustments, like a 1/4 hash mark to the Slow "-" side to start ..

Good luck.

[Image: mQ4RYRq.jpg]

73 729
Reply
 03-18-2020, 10:42 AM
#16
User Info
It’s just amazing...

I’ve been wearing the “beast” for over 24 hours now.  It’s keeping nearly perfect time.
I’ve done nothing to it.  I haven’t reset it, haven’t wound it.  I even took it off for nighty night...still keeps on ticking!
It’s a miracle!!  A Christmas Miracle!
Pete

[Image: nTT1r1S.jpg]

4 222
Reply
 03-18-2020, 11:41 AM
#17
User Info
Maybe its the bronze razor?

67 1,975
Reply
 03-18-2020, 05:52 PM
#18
  • garyg
  • Senior Member
  • Great Lakes
User Info
Good deal, and reminds me that I forgot the usual advice about automatic's - give them some break-in time before changing the regulation.

Nice looking watch

73 729
Reply
 03-18-2020, 06:28 PM
#19
User Info
The watch would probably be in the river by now, if you fellas wouldn’t have helped me.
Thanks!

4 222
Reply
 03-19-2020, 05:11 AM
#20
User Info
If it is in fact a genuine Seiko movement (which is very much in dispute if it was purchased from AliExpress) it is a very good and reliable movement.  It may need to be regulated (you can search youtube for very informative videos on how to do so).  That particular movement can be hand wound in addition to it's "automatic" winding.  If it is regulated, and running within limits, it will likely run +/- 5 to 10 seconds per day as that has been my experience with this movement.  I recall the specs for that particular movement are +/- 25 seconds per day.  
Hope that helps.

98 989
Reply
Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)