06-09-2020, 07:31 AM
#1
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Hello gents,

I recently purchased a refill puck of Geo Trumper Eucris in the hard soap variety.  I’m not sure that I like the scent (maybe a bit to perfume for me) but the “lather” is the worst I’ve ever seen since a VdH puck that I threw out.  I face lather mostly, so I applied some PAA pre-shave soap, loaded the wonderful boar brush and gently rinsed off most of the pre-shave.  Started with the lathering, added a little water to the brush and whipped up the soap on my face.  

Dried out very quickly, didn’t seem particularly slick.  I wondered if the Eucris was not happy with the PAA preshave, so I rinsed every thing off my face and started over with no preshave.  Tried to load more soap than the first try on the brush...Same thing, no real lather and dried out very quickly.  Gave up, rinsed the brush and reached for the Noble Otter Nectar Amissa.  Fantastic shave, same water, same brush, same face.  Great slickness, cushion and scent.

I’ve never tried a GMT product before and I wanted to smell like James Bond.  Needless to say it was very disappointing.

Any suggestions, or experience with this soap?
I do have very hard water and I wonder if that’s what the problem was?  Glycerin?

Here’s the ingredients:
Sodium Palmate, Potassium Stearate, Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua (Water), Potassium Cocoate, Glycerin, Parfum (Fragrance), CI 77891, Tetrasodium EDTA, Sodium Chloride, Isopropyl Myristate, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Evernia Furfuracea, BHT, Coumarin.

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 06-09-2020, 09:12 AM
#2
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Soap Works Ltd. single handedly destroyed nearly all British hard shaving soaps when they took on production following the closure of a factory in Devon which used to make them. Soapworks had never made a shaving soap before and obviously didn't invest much time in finding out what's involved as they ended up producing what is essentially bath soap for everyone apart from D.R Harris who maintain in house production. Floris & TOBS were the first to realise and reformulated sharpish, GFT and T&H still deny there is any problem to this day and Penhaligon's decided to quit selling shaving soap altogether rather than sort the problem out.


These dud soaps can be easily identified by the first ingredient, if Sodium Palmate then it's rubbish, if Potassium Palmate then it's good.

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 06-09-2020, 12:28 PM
#3
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Rohleder's post nails it, but I wanted to just add my $0.02 that it is unfortunately not a fluke and definitely isn't anything you are doing wrong.

But the GFT creams work fine if you like the Eucris scent.

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 06-09-2020, 12:36 PM
#4
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I was pretty amazed, I expected a great English soap.  I think you’re right...it was just like bath soap.  Pretty expensive bath soap!  I hate to send it back to Fendrihan, it’s not their problem.  Maybe I’ll email them and at least tell them what a disaster the soap is.
Thanks for helping me sort that out!
Pete

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 06-09-2020, 12:47 PM
#5
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(06-09-2020, 12:36 PM)PATRIOT Wrote: I was pretty amazed, I expected a great English soap.  I think you’re right...it was just like bath soap.  Pretty expensive bath soap!  I hate to send it back to Fendrihan, it’s not their problem.  Maybe I’ll email them and at least tell them what a disaster the soap is.
Thanks for helping me sort that out!
Pete

I read about this issue before visiting London in 2014, so part of me feels like Fendrihan is complicit (making it their problem) by continuing to sell it. Your call of course Smile

Side note, on that trip I bought all creams except a DR Harris Arlington soap which is fantastic if you want a great English soap.

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 06-09-2020, 01:01 PM
#6
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
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(06-09-2020, 12:47 PM)Gig103 Wrote:
(06-09-2020, 12:36 PM)PATRIOT Wrote: I was pretty amazed, I expected a great English soap.  I think you’re right...it was just like bath soap.  Pretty expensive bath soap!  I hate to send it back to Fendrihan, it’s not their problem.  Maybe I’ll email them and at least tell them what a disaster the soap is.
Thanks for helping me sort that out!
Pete

I read about this issue before visiting London in 2014, so part of me feels like Fendrihan is complicit (making it their problem) by continuing to sell it. Your call of course Smile

Side note, on that trip I bought all creams except a DR Harris Arlington soap which is fantastic if you want a great English soap.

Are you suggesting they should simply throw out their entire stock of Trumper soaps? It could easily be several thousand dollars worth. I am not a fan of the reformulation either but, some people apparently are.

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 06-09-2020, 01:13 PM
#7
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(06-09-2020, 09:12 AM)Rohleder Wrote: These dud soaps can be easily identified by the first ingredient, if Sodium Palmate then it's rubbish, if Potassium Palmate then it's good.

The Sodium Palmate v. Potassium Palmate debate has been going on for years, ever since Trumper changed their formula.  However, there are those who get good results from the Sodium Palmate formula. Your hard water is likely a factor.  I have hard water in Miami and am familiar with this issue.  You may want to try D.R. Harris soaps, which have Potassium Palmate and Sodium Tallowate as the first two ingredients.  I find the D.R. Harris soaps lather fine with my hard water.

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 06-09-2020, 01:13 PM
#8
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(06-09-2020, 01:01 PM)bullgoose Wrote:
(06-09-2020, 12:47 PM)Gig103 Wrote:
(06-09-2020, 12:36 PM)PATRIOT Wrote: I was pretty amazed, I expected a great English soap.  I think you’re right...it was just like bath soap.  Pretty expensive bath soap!  I hate to send it back to Fendrihan, it’s not their problem.  Maybe I’ll email them and at least tell them what a disaster the soap is.
Thanks for helping me sort that out!
Pete

I read about this issue before visiting London in 2014, so part of me feels like Fendrihan is complicit (making it their problem) by continuing to sell it. Your call of course Smile

Side note, on that trip I bought all creams except a DR Harris Arlington soap which is fantastic if you want a great English soap.

Are you suggesting they should simply throw out their entire stock of Trumper soaps? It could easily be several thousand dollars worth. I am not a fan of the reformulation either but, some people apparently are.

I'd be upset if I was a retailer that got stuck with thousands of dollars of dud soap. Maybe Fendrihan will exchange as an act of customer service.

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 06-09-2020, 01:20 PM
#9
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
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(06-09-2020, 01:13 PM)Gig103 Wrote:
(06-09-2020, 01:01 PM)bullgoose Wrote:
(06-09-2020, 12:47 PM)Gig103 Wrote: I read about this issue before visiting London in 2014, so part of me feels like Fendrihan is complicit (making it their problem) by continuing to sell it. Your call of course Smile

Side note, on that trip I bought all creams except a DR Harris Arlington soap which is fantastic if you want a great English soap.

Are you suggesting they should simply throw out their entire stock of Trumper soaps? It could easily be several thousand dollars worth. I am not a fan of the reformulation either but, some people apparently are.

I'd be upset if I was a retailer that got stuck with thousands of dollars of dud soap. Maybe Fendrihan will exchange as an act of customer service.

As Ricardo explained- it isn’t dud soap. Some people like it. What is Fedrihan supposed to do with a used soap? You are suggesting that they take a loss for something that is not remotely their fault.

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 06-09-2020, 01:23 PM
#10
  • chazt
  • Senior Member
  • Queens, NY
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I’ve just recently tried my very first English shave soap other than Mitchell's; D.R. Harris Marlborough. The soap is Excellent. It’s very impressive with a beautiful, rich, thick, protective and slick lather. My jury is still deliberating over the (for me, relatively strong) scent, but the soap base itself is outstanding. Excellent, excellent soap. I would love to see an unscented version!

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 06-09-2020, 01:33 PM
#11
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
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(06-09-2020, 01:23 PM)chazt Wrote: I’ve just recently tried my very first English shave soap other than Mitchell's; D.R. Harris Marlborough. The soap is Excellent. It’s very impressive with a beautiful, rich, thick, protective and slick lather. My jury is still deliberating over the (for me, relatively strong) scent, but the soap base itself is outstanding. Excellent, excellent soap. I would love to see an unscented version!
The almond soap from DR Harris is practically unscented. Lavender and Arlington are lightly scented.

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 06-09-2020, 01:48 PM
#12
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(06-09-2020, 01:20 PM)bullgoose Wrote:
(06-09-2020, 01:13 PM)Gig103 Wrote:
(06-09-2020, 01:01 PM)bullgoose Wrote: Are you suggesting they should simply throw out their entire stock of Trumper soaps? It could easily be several thousand dollars worth. I am not a fan of the reformulation either but, some people apparently are.

I'd be upset if I was a retailer that got stuck with thousands of dollars of dud soap. Maybe Fendrihan will exchange as an act of customer service.

As Ricardo explained- it isn’t dud soap. Some people like it. What is Fedrihan supposed to do with a used soap? You are suggesting that they take a loss for something that is not remotely their fault.

Maybe Fendrihan puts a higher value on customer satisfaction and wouldn't see it as as loss but rather sales retention. When I had an issue with tires wearing out in < 20k miles and the BMW dealership told me to pound sand, Discount Tire gave me a in trade-in value even though I had not purchased from them. It was only $30 a tire, but that was enough since BMW offered $0. Since 2009, I've subsequently spent $3867.68 with Discount Tire, $0 with Costco, $0 with any dealership. Yes I went into Quicken to get the precise value.

My point is that there is no harm in asking for an exchange, since the worst case response is "No refunds available since Ricardo likes the soap" and Patriot can move on and buy the cream from a different vendor.

Edit: Although I just looked and see Eucris cream is $18, I wouldn't say it performs at that price point compared to other soaps out there, although scent does play into the value.

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 06-09-2020, 01:50 PM
#13
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Over the past few years I have purchased four brands of soaps which did not lather.  They were not duds or defective.  They simply did not lather in my hard water.  However, I know that each of those soaps produced excellent results for others.  In fact, those soaps performed well for some guys who have hard water like me.  Go figure.  I ended up giving those soaps away.  Expecting the vendor to take a loss under these circumstances strikes me as unreasonable.

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 06-09-2020, 02:35 PM
#14
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
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(06-09-2020, 01:48 PM)Gig103 Wrote:
(06-09-2020, 01:20 PM)bullgoose Wrote:
(06-09-2020, 01:13 PM)Gig103 Wrote: I'd be upset if I was a retailer that got stuck with thousands of dollars of dud soap. Maybe Fendrihan will exchange as an act of customer service.

As Ricardo explained- it isn’t dud soap. Some people like it. What is Fedrihan supposed to do with a used soap? You are suggesting that they take a loss for something that is not remotely their fault.

Maybe Fendrihan puts a higher value on customer satisfaction and wouldn't see it as as loss but rather sales retention. When I had an issue with tires wearing out in < 20k miles and the BMW dealership told me to pound sand, Discount Tire gave me a in trade-in value even though I had not purchased from them. It was only $30 a tire, but that was enough since BMW offered $0. Since 2009, I've subsequently spent $3867.68 with Discount Tire, $0 with Costco, $0 with any dealership. Yes I went into Quicken to get the precise value.

My point is that there is no harm in asking for an exchange, since the worst case response is "No refunds available since Ricardo likes the soap" and Patriot can move on and buy the cream from a different vendor.

Edit: Although I just looked and see Eucris cream is $18, I wouldn't say it performs at that price point compared to other soaps out there, although scent does play into the value.
Tires and soap are like apples and oranges as is the comparison between a franchised tire store and a small independent business. In the case of the tires, I imagine that there is a wear out warranty so that Discount Tires could potentially receive compensation from the manufacturer. Fendrihan won't get squat from Trumpers.

While Fendrihan may make an exchange if they have a history with the customer, to expect it is outrageous. It would be a different story if the soap arrived moldy or somehow defective. In this case, it was simply representative of the reformulated soap.

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 06-09-2020, 03:02 PM
#15
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(06-09-2020, 02:35 PM)bullgoose Wrote:
(06-09-2020, 01:48 PM)Gig103 Wrote:
(06-09-2020, 01:20 PM)bullgoose Wrote: As Ricardo explained- it isn’t dud soap. Some people like it. What is Fedrihan supposed to do with a used soap? You are suggesting that they take a loss for something that is not remotely their fault.

Maybe Fendrihan puts a higher value on customer satisfaction and wouldn't see it as as loss but rather sales retention. When I had an issue with tires wearing out in < 20k miles and the BMW dealership told me to pound sand, Discount Tire gave me a in trade-in value even though I had not purchased from them. It was only $30 a tire, but that was enough since BMW offered $0. Since 2009, I've subsequently spent $3867.68 with Discount Tire, $0 with Costco, $0 with any dealership. Yes I went into Quicken to get the precise value.

My point is that there is no harm in asking for an exchange, since the worst case response is "No refunds available since Ricardo likes the soap" and Patriot can move on and buy the cream from a different vendor.

Edit: Although I just looked and see Eucris cream is $18, I wouldn't say it performs at that price point compared to other soaps out there, although scent does play into the value.
Tires and soap are like apples and oranges as is the comparison between a franchised tire store and a small independent business. In the case of the tires, I imagine that there is a wear out warranty so that Discount Tires could potentially receive compensation from the manufacturer. Fendrihan won't get squat from Trumpers.

While Fendrihan may make an exchange if they have a history with the customer, to expect it is outrageous. It would be a different story if the soap arrived moldy or somehow defective. In this case, it was simply representative of the reformulated soap.

Hey Phil, I would like to point out I never said I'd expect an exchange, just that there's no harm in asking. You say yourself that they may make an exchange, which supports all I've been suggesting.

As for my tires, BMW and Discount both gave the same assessment that my tires had worn unevenly which excluded them from the warranty, which is why DT gave me a goodwill gesture. DT has also matched Costco Tire pricing in the past for me, another gesture not all vendors or industries are likely to do. But if you don't ask the answer is always no.

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 06-09-2020, 03:22 PM
#16
  • chazt
  • Senior Member
  • Queens, NY
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(06-09-2020, 01:33 PM)bullgoose Wrote:
(06-09-2020, 01:23 PM)chazt Wrote: I’ve just recently tried my very first English shave soap other than Mitchell's; D.R. Harris Marlborough. The soap is Excellent. It’s very impressive with a beautiful, rich, thick, protective and slick lather. My jury is still deliberating over the (for me, relatively strong) scent, but the soap base itself is outstanding. Excellent, excellent soap. I would love to see an unscented version!
The almond soap from DR Harris is practically unscented. Lavender and Arlington are lightly scented.

Thanks for the tip. I’ll include a puck of Arlington with my next order. I like the smell of real lavender, but my skin rashes out on me bigly when I use anything predominantly lavender scented. Ah, almonds! Yummo! While I love eating raw almonds, I’m definitely not fond of almond scented products. Arlington it is!

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 06-09-2020, 09:56 PM
#17
  • Nero
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(06-09-2020, 03:22 PM)chazt Wrote:
(06-09-2020, 01:33 PM)bullgoose Wrote:
(06-09-2020, 01:23 PM)chazt Wrote: I’ve just recently tried my very first English shave soap other than Mitchell's; D.R. Harris Marlborough. The soap is Excellent. It’s very impressive with a beautiful, rich, thick, protective and slick lather. My jury is still deliberating over the (for me, relatively strong) scent, but the soap base itself is outstanding. Excellent, excellent soap. I would love to see an unscented version!
The almond soap from DR Harris is practically unscented. Lavender and Arlington are lightly scented.

Thanks for the tip. I’ll include a puck of Arlington with my next order. I like the smell of real lavender, but my skin rashes out on me bigly when I use anything predominantly lavender scented. Ah, almonds! Yummo! While I love eating raw almonds, I’m definitely not fond of almond scented products. Arlington it is!
Charlie, just FYI in case... DRH Almond is not like other shaving products called "Almond"... it's not a cherry /marzipan scent. To me it is like a light, clean vanilla.

You remember the Cream Soda by New York Seltzer? I think it's kinda like that but less sweet... and no fizz.
... Maybe Smile
But yeah, I think of cream and vanilla when I smell the DRH.
It even has sweet almond oil in the ingredients list and is the only DRH soap with that feature. I do feel it has a more plump finish than the others. For sure. [Image: 95df9480ed1f1ca8beff7944dd3bdbc9.jpg]

good lather has no suds

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 06-10-2020, 03:12 AM
#18
  • chazt
  • Senior Member
  • Queens, NY
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ONYS...


Hmm


Gee, I don’t know, Matt. Dr. Brown’s ruled cream soda land when I was growing up.

Cel-Ray, anyone?

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 06-10-2020, 04:51 AM
#19
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(06-09-2020, 03:22 PM)chazt Wrote:
(06-09-2020, 01:33 PM)bullgoose Wrote:
(06-09-2020, 01:23 PM)chazt Wrote: I’ve just recently tried my very first English shave soap other than Mitchell's; D.R. Harris Marlborough. The soap is Excellent. It’s very impressive with a beautiful, rich, thick, protective and slick lather. My jury is still deliberating over the (for me, relatively strong) scent, but the soap base itself is outstanding. Excellent, excellent soap. I would love to see an unscented version!
The almond soap from DR Harris is practically unscented. Lavender and Arlington are lightly scented.

Thanks for the tip. I’ll include a puck of Arlington with my next order. I like the smell of real lavender, but my skin rashes out on me bigly when I use anything predominantly lavender scented. Ah, almonds! Yummo! While I love eating raw almonds, I’m definitely not fond of almond scented products. Arlington it is!
If you are familiar with 4711, Charlie, that's exactly what you are going to get with Arlington. IMO, Windsor is DRH's best scent.

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 06-10-2020, 04:56 AM
#20
  • bullgoose
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  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
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Light clean vanilla is a good description for DRH almond. It is also different from other almond soaps in that i can use it without having a skin reaction. All of the Italian soft almond soaps set my face on fire. DRH doesn’t. Go figure.

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