10-30-2020, 01:23 PM
#1
  • Andrew
  • Senior Member
  • Austin, TX
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I have been off the forums for some time and came back looking for a review of Caswell Massey soaps, which Phil has recently added to his shop. It looks like a number of classic shaving soap brands have reformulated their soaps while I wasn’t looking - I noticed the thread on Floris and other comments about Cyril Salter and DR Harris. The acquisition gears are being set in motion, and my main concern is obtaining the new formulation, not old stock. Are there particular stockists where I can be confident of obtaining the latest greatest of each?

And if anyone has experience with the new Caswell Massey soaps, consider starting a new thread with your thoughts.

Cheers

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 11-03-2020, 12:41 PM
#2
  • Steve56
  • Senior Member
  • Knoxville, TN
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Eh, Bullgoose?

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 11-03-2020, 05:26 PM
#3
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
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The new Caswell-Massey soaps are artisan soaps made by the Holy Black but scented with the traditional Caswell-Massey scents. They are soft soaps and they lather easily. I have been using the Sandalwood for the past couple of weeks and, I am impressed.

The Caswell Massey creams are a little different from what I am used to. They are extremely slick and have excellent skin care qualities but, it does not produce mounds of lather. It works great as a brushless cream.

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 12-13-2020, 07:32 AM
#4
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
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To add to your list Andrew -soon there will be a new Czech & Speake soap. My understanding is that they are very happy with the performance of the new soap but they were not completely satisfied with the shape. That is being remedied and, the new soap should debut early next year.

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 03-12-2021, 07:12 AM
#5
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Per C&S, release date is April 19.

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 03-12-2021, 07:54 AM
#6
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(03-12-2021, 07:12 AM)ask4Edge Wrote: Per C&S, release date is April 19.

I saw that on the C&S USA website.  I'll definitely try the new soap when BullGoose gets it in stock.  What we don't know is whether the new version will be as good as the original.

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 03-12-2021, 08:55 AM
#7
  • garyg
  • Senior Member
  • Great Lakes
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I just got an email from C&S.  The email claims new improved, but the formula listed at the website has the same ingredients in the same order.  Tallow based obviously

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 03-12-2021, 09:47 AM
#8
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(03-12-2021, 08:55 AM)garyg Wrote: I just got an email from C&S.  The email claims new improved, but the formula listed at the website has the same ingredients in the same order.  Tallow based obviously

I noticed that also.  I wonder if perhaps they have not updated the website with the new ingredients.

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 03-12-2021, 03:01 PM
#9
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New No.88 list of ingredients (per C&S):

Sodium Palmate, Sodium Tallowate, Aqua (Water), Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Glycerin, Parfum (Fragrance), Lecithin, Petrolatum, Zea Mays Oil, Sodium Citrate, Sodium Chloride, Tocopheryl Acetate, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Tetrasodium EDTA, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Geraniol, Linalool, Citronellol, Hydroxy Citronellal, Limonene, Oakmoss Absolute, C.I. 77499, C.I. 17789

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 03-12-2021, 03:20 PM
#10
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(03-12-2021, 03:01 PM)ask4Edge Wrote: New No.88 list of ingredients (per C&S):

Sodium Palmate, Sodium Tallowate, Aqua (Water), Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Glycerin, Parfum (Fragrance), Lecithin, Petrolatum, Zea Mays Oil, Sodium Citrate, Sodium Chloride, Tocopheryl Acetate, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Tetrasodium EDTA, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Geraniol, Linalool, Citronellol, Hydroxy Citronellal, Limonene, Oakmoss Absolute, C.I. 77499, C.I. 17789

Thanks for posting this.  We'll have to wait and see if guys start reporting airy, bubbly, disappearing lather.

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 03-12-2021, 06:42 PM
#11
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
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(03-12-2021, 03:20 PM)TheLegalRazor Wrote:
(03-12-2021, 03:01 PM)ask4Edge Wrote: New No.88 list of ingredients (per C&S):

Sodium Palmate, Sodium Tallowate, Aqua (Water), Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Glycerin, Parfum (Fragrance), Lecithin, Petrolatum, Zea Mays Oil, Sodium Citrate, Sodium Chloride, Tocopheryl Acetate, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Tetrasodium EDTA, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Geraniol, Linalool, Citronellol, Hydroxy Citronellal, Limonene, Oakmoss Absolute, C.I. 77499, C.I. 17789

Thanks for posting this.  We'll have to wait and see if guys start reporting airy, bubbly, disappearing lather.

Ugh- the last time I spoke with Christopher Dunn at C & S, I was assured that the formula would stay the same. That was last July. Something must have changed. When you have the best triple milled shave soap on the market, you really should not screw with it. Unfortunately, we have all seen this movie before. 

My hope is that the new soap performs like the new Floris or Arran soaps. If so, I’ll be a happy camper.

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 03-13-2021, 03:35 AM
#12
  • garyg
  • Senior Member
  • Great Lakes
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Their website appears to be confused as well - the description of the No.88 set in that pricey bowl has the original formula, as do the travel pucks, but if you pick the refill it includes the "Sodium Palmate".  Sloppy at best, but guess we'll have to wait and see which is behind the door, and even if it's the original formula whether the magic remains with the new process/factory

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 03-13-2021, 01:20 PM
#13
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Sodium palmate as the primary ingredient sets my alarms bells ringing... Sounds like the handiwork of Soapworks Glasgow who makes the now infamously bad Trumper's hard soaps, they were also responsible for the poor performing C&E, T&H & Floris shaving soaps. They are the only manufacturer I know who insists on using sodium palmate as the primary ingredient.

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 03-14-2021, 08:42 AM
#14
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“When you have the best triple milled shave soap on the market, you really should not screw with it.”

Plus, Plus, Plus on this! Czech & Speake is a favorite. If they screw the pooch that will be a darn shame.

Q. Why do so many manufacturers keep making the same mistakes by running quality products into the ground?

A. Because they think they’re in business to keep making money. When production costs rise, they cut quality to preserve profits. Then sales slide, because the quality is gone. Then they go under, having squandered a business that, in many cases has been successful for many generations. All because they were short-sighted. It’s the old story of “killing the golden goose.” It’s nearly impossible to fully appreciate the sacrifice and hard work it takes to build up a successful business from scratch if you haven’t done the work yourself.

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 03-14-2021, 09:18 AM
#15
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
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(03-14-2021, 08:42 AM)SRZ65LE31 Wrote: “When you have the best triple milled shave soap on the market, you really should not screw with it.”

Plus, Plus, Plus on this!  Czech & Speake is a favorite.  If they screw the pooch that will be a darn shame.

Q.  Why do so many manufacturers keep making the same mistakes by running quality products into the ground?

A. Because they think they’re in business to keep making money.  When production costs rise, they cut quality to preserve profits.  Then sales slide, because the quality is gone.  Then they go under, having squandered a business that, in many cases has been successful for many generations.  All because they were short-sighted.  It’s the old story of “killing the golden goose.”  It’s nearly impossible to fully appreciate the sacrifice and hard work it takes to build up a successful business from scratch if you haven’t done the work yourself.
That is definitely true. The bean counters can really ruin a business. Obviously, you want to turn a profit. Cutting corners though isn't the way to do it.

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 03-14-2021, 09:46 AM
#16
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(03-14-2021, 09:18 AM)bullgoose Wrote:
(03-14-2021, 08:42 AM)SRZ65LE31 Wrote: “When you have the best triple milled shave soap on the market, you really should not screw with it.”

Plus, Plus, Plus on this!  Czech & Speake is a favorite.  If they screw the pooch that will be a darn shame.

Q.  Why do so many manufacturers keep making the same mistakes by running quality products into the ground?

A. Because they think they’re in business to keep making money.  When production costs rise, they cut quality to preserve profits.  Then sales slide, because the quality is gone.  Then they go under, having squandered a business that, in many cases has been successful for many generations.  All because they were short-sighted.  It’s the old story of “killing the golden goose.”  It’s nearly impossible to fully appreciate the sacrifice and hard work it takes to build up a successful business from scratch if you haven’t done the work yourself.
That is definitely true. The bean counters can really ruin a business. Obviously, you want to turn a profit. Cutting corners though isn't the way to do it.

“Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.”  - Arnold Toynbee, English historian who lived from 1889-1975, thus observing both the peak (1912) and then the nadir (1970s) of the British Empire.

Sadly the same idea sometimes applies to businesses.

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 03-17-2021, 08:08 AM
#17
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(03-12-2021, 07:12 AM)ask4Edge Wrote: Per C&S, release date is April 19.
Pushed to April 12.

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 03-17-2021, 10:35 AM
#18
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I've since seen it said elsewhere that C&S have confirmed the new soaps are being produced by a U.K manufacturer. It'll either be Soapworks who make awful shaving soap or Culmak who make good shaving soap (D.R. Harris & Cyril Salter etc so I'm told.)

Still concerned about the INCI... Does a shaving soap really require a known carcinogen in 2021? (Petrolatum)

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 03-17-2021, 03:02 PM
#19
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I could do without the petrolatum. That said, only highly refined petrolatum is used in cosmetics in Europe. 

(No studies have shown a direct link between petrolatum and cancer, AFAIK.)

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 03-18-2021, 06:50 AM
#20
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
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(03-17-2021, 10:35 AM)Rohleder Wrote: I've since seen it said elsewhere that C&S have confirmed the new soaps are being produced by a U.K manufacturer. It'll either be Soapworks who make awful shaving soap or Culmak who make good shaving soap (D.R. Harris & Cyril Salter etc so I'm told.)

Still concerned about the INCI... Does a shaving soap really require a known carcinogen in 2021? (Petrolatum)

Who makes the new Floris soaps? They are excellent. Is there a third manufacturer by any chance?

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