06-22-2021, 09:32 PM
In mid May, we received a shipment of No. 88 shaving soap from the Czech & Speake distributor in Massachusetts. Upon unpacking the soap, I noticed that the boxes were stamped Made in Italy and the ingredients were the same as what we had always enjoyed. Here is a picture of one of the boxes with the ingredient list and the made in Italy Stamp.
![[Image: oiXL90p.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/oiXL90p.jpg)
About a week or so after I listed them for sale, I received an email from a good customer who had a concern with his soap. The color was off and it failed to produce a decent lather. At this point, I emailed Czech & Speake as well as the distributor. Czech & Speake told the distributor that they had dug up some of the old soap from Italy and that this was the last of the NOS soap.
A few days after that claim by Czech & Speake, a customer sent me a comparison photo of an actual NOS soap that he had in his stash next to one of these soaps that Czech & Speake "managed to dig up". You can see that comparison picture here.
![[Image: ilHEAog.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/ilHEAog.jpg)
I forwarded this photo to Czech & Speake through the distributor. When the Czech & Speake representative received this photo, he said that it was actually the new soap (Made in England) and that the made in Italy stamp was an oversight. However, he went on to claim that the ingredients listed on the box were correct and that Czech & Speake kept the formula for the soap exactly the same as it has always been. The only problem is this is also not true.
Here are the ingredients of the new soap as listed on the Czech & Speake UK website:
Sodium Palmate, Sodium Tallowate, Aqua (Water), Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Glycerin, Parfum (Fragrance), Lecithin, Petrolatum, Zea Mays Oil, Sodium Citrate, Sodium Chloride, Tocopheryl Acetate, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Tetrasodium EDTA, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Geraniol, Linalool, Citronellol, Hydroxy Citronellal, Limonene, Oakmoss Absolute, C.I. 77499, C.I. 17789
As you can see, not only are the ingredients not the same, the very first ingredient is different. The soaps are not even close to being the same.
Once I get things sorted out with Czech & Speake, refunds will be issued for No. 88 shave soaps purchased between May 28th and June 10th.
![[Image: oiXL90p.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/oiXL90p.jpg)
About a week or so after I listed them for sale, I received an email from a good customer who had a concern with his soap. The color was off and it failed to produce a decent lather. At this point, I emailed Czech & Speake as well as the distributor. Czech & Speake told the distributor that they had dug up some of the old soap from Italy and that this was the last of the NOS soap.
A few days after that claim by Czech & Speake, a customer sent me a comparison photo of an actual NOS soap that he had in his stash next to one of these soaps that Czech & Speake "managed to dig up". You can see that comparison picture here.
![[Image: ilHEAog.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/ilHEAog.jpg)
I forwarded this photo to Czech & Speake through the distributor. When the Czech & Speake representative received this photo, he said that it was actually the new soap (Made in England) and that the made in Italy stamp was an oversight. However, he went on to claim that the ingredients listed on the box were correct and that Czech & Speake kept the formula for the soap exactly the same as it has always been. The only problem is this is also not true.
Here are the ingredients of the new soap as listed on the Czech & Speake UK website:
Sodium Palmate, Sodium Tallowate, Aqua (Water), Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Glycerin, Parfum (Fragrance), Lecithin, Petrolatum, Zea Mays Oil, Sodium Citrate, Sodium Chloride, Tocopheryl Acetate, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Tetrasodium EDTA, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Geraniol, Linalool, Citronellol, Hydroxy Citronellal, Limonene, Oakmoss Absolute, C.I. 77499, C.I. 17789
As you can see, not only are the ingredients not the same, the very first ingredient is different. The soaps are not even close to being the same.
Once I get things sorted out with Czech & Speake, refunds will be issued for No. 88 shave soaps purchased between May 28th and June 10th.
06-23-2021, 06:19 AM
(06-23-2021, 04:51 AM)Mazama Wrote: How disappointing that C&S themselves perpetrated this deception on their distributor, retailer and customers..
"Trust but verify" - R Reagan
It was truly shocking. Once they admitted that this was the new soap, they tried telling me that it was superior to the NOS soap. I don't think that my customers agree with that assertion.
06-23-2021, 06:58 AM
(06-23-2021, 06:00 AM)bullgoose Wrote:(06-23-2021, 05:22 AM)Sully Wrote: I'm still scratching my head as to how this could have happened.
Has C&S changed ownership or senior management recently?
Over the years I've been astounded how often new ownership destroys a once-successful business. Sometimes the cause is simple greed or the need to pay off debt from the acquisition but often the reason is failure to understand the attributes that made the business successful compounded by arrogance.
06-23-2021, 07:15 AM
(06-23-2021, 06:58 AM)Mazama Wrote:(06-23-2021, 06:00 AM)bullgoose Wrote:(06-23-2021, 05:22 AM)Sully Wrote: I'm still scratching my head as to how this could have happened.
Has C&S changed ownership or senior management recently?
Over the years I've been astounded how often new ownership destroys a once-successful business. Sometimes the cause is simple greed or the need to pay off debt from the acquisition but often the reason is failure to understand the attributes that made the business successful compounded by arrogance.
Valobra, who used to make the soaps for C&S, was acquired by a large corporation and then shuttered. As a result, C&S had to find a new soap manufacturer. What happened after that is all on Czech & Speake. I have been dealing with the same spokesperson at C&S for the past ten years. That said, I do not know if ownership has changed.
06-24-2021, 03:29 PM
(06-22-2021, 09:32 PM)bullgoose Wrote: In mid May, we received a shipment of No. 88 shaving soap from the Czech & Speake distributor in Massachusetts. Upon unpacking the soap, I noticed that the boxes were stamped Made in Italy and the ingredients were the same as what we had always enjoyed. Here is a picture of one of the boxes with the ingredient list and the made in Italy Stamp.
About a week or so after I listed them for sale, I received an email from a good customer who had a concern with his soap. The color was off and it failed to produce a decent lather. At this point, I emailed Czech & Speake as well as the distributor. Czech & Speake told the distributor that they had dug up some of the old soap from Italy and that this was the last of the NOS soap.
A few days after that claim by Czech & Speake, a customer sent me a comparison photo of an actual NOS soap that he had in his stash next to one of these soaps that Czech & Speake "managed to dig up". You can see that comparison picture here.
I forwarded this photo to Czech & Speake through the distributor. When the Czech & Speake representative received this photo, he said that it was actually the new soap (Made in England) and that the made in Italy stamp was an oversight. However, he went on to claim that the ingredients listed on the box were correct and that Czech & Speake kept the formula for the soap exactly the same as it has always been. The only problem is this is also not true.
Here are the ingredients of the new soap as listed on the Czech & Speake UK website:
Sodium Palmate, Sodium Tallowate, Aqua (Water), Sodium Cocoate, Sodium Palm Kernelate, Glycerin, Parfum (Fragrance), Lecithin, Petrolatum, Zea Mays Oil, Sodium Citrate, Sodium Chloride, Tocopheryl Acetate, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil, Tetrasodium EDTA, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Geraniol, Linalool, Citronellol, Hydroxy Citronellal, Limonene, Oakmoss Absolute, C.I. 77499, C.I. 17789
As you can see, not only are the ingredients not the same, the very first ingredient is different. The soaps are not even close to being the same.
Once I get things sorted out with Czech & Speake, refunds will be issued for No. 88 shave soaps purchased between May 28th and June 10th.
Thanks, Phil. I have a couple that I would like to return.
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