01-05-2023, 08:39 PM
#1
  • Shaun
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  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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This interesting razor is on its way to me. It is a slant with a ‘differential’ head, meaning the scalloped edges make for a more or less aggressive shave. I also believe there are more than two possible combinations, depending on which way the cap is attached. We shall see. 

The issue: there are no markings, and I assumed it was a Lutz, dating back to the original time of production… but is it?

Clue: look at the end of the handle. It has lines; the Lutz (at least the ones re-marketed a few years ago as NOS) has a plain or smooth end. 

So, what is it? Is it an ORIGINAL Lutz? Or some other German make from the time? 

Pictures:
[Image: A5tGenj.jpg]
[Image: jQNzvkh.jpg]

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 01-05-2023, 10:17 PM
#2
  • Shaun
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  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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Solved?

I think it is a Sonnal: handle and head; a combination of the two Sonnal razors below. One (the first picture and third picture, with acknowledgement to Tim Buktu from the Gut Raisert forum, Germany) is the T-bar (unslanted) that has the exact same handle as mine, noting the diagonal stripes at the very bottom; the head on mine is the same as from the Sonnal slant (second picture), noting the different handle on THAT slant (name stamped; different bottom end). Edit: I now believe the head on all these slants was generic, hence no identifying stamp.

I conclude that mine is a more affordable version of the Sonnal slant, but I have no evidence. 

[Image: BxXhfKm.jpg]
[Image: UA2cE9d.jpg]
[Image: QMxSbBc.jpg]

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 01-05-2023, 10:31 PM
#3
  • Shaun
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  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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I post a link below to a similar combination of handle and head, with apologies to the chap (Hallas) who posted the image on several other sites, pointing out three different German slants from the same period having the same or similar handle pattern, from left to right: a Romi, a Pfeilring; and a “Lutz”. Now there are 4: we also now have the Sonnal. 

Note: at the very bottom of the so-called Lutz (on the right), the ‘lines’ scored are more vertical than diagonal as on my Sonnal. I am not claiming that the one on the right is a Sonnal, however, the one on the left may in fact be a Lutz (?)
[Image: Lhp4L6D.jpg]

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 01-05-2023, 11:41 PM
#4
  • Shaun
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  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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And then there is the Dorko 710. 

Slightly different again Wink 

[Image: xL8eMI7.jpg]

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 01-06-2023, 01:34 AM
#5
  • Shaun
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  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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From a pamphlet depicting the Sonnal razor works (founder Hugo Pasch) in Solingen, 1930s: three razors, including the slant we are discussing: 

[Image: BAiF9Zp.jpg]

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 01-06-2023, 04:39 AM
#6
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 01-06-2023, 10:57 AM
#7
  • Shaun
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  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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(01-06-2023, 04:39 AM)TobyC Wrote: https://www.malcolmwagner.co.uk/1930s-19...r-rotbart/
Similar again - closest yet! - but the very bottom of the handle lacks the lines. Yours looks like a Lutz! Nice! Did you purchase this, Toby?

Mine comes in a slightly different Rotbart bakelite case (it’s true! See picture below) but I can find no evidence of the razor itself being a Rotbart.

This may be evidence of wartime practice by German manufacturers combining (slightly earlier) razors and cases to sell to soldiers. (Razors were not standard issue as I understand it; only shaving soap was. Soldiers bought their own razors.) Seems too much of a coincidence that we have slants (so far: Lutz; Sonnal) turning up in Rotbart cases. This is actually getting more interesting! 

[Image: Y5j2FjC.jpg]

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 01-06-2023, 05:19 PM
#8
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(01-06-2023, 10:57 AM)Shaun Wrote:
(01-06-2023, 04:39 AM)TobyC Wrote: https://www.malcolmwagner.co.uk/1930s-19...r-rotbart/
Similar again - closest yet! - but the very bottom of the handle lacks the lines. Yours looks like a Lutz! Nice! Did you purchase this, Toby?

Mine comes in a slightly different Rotbart bakelite case (it’s true! See picture below) but I can find no evidence of the razor itself being a Rotbart.

This may be evidence of wartime practice by German manufacturers combining (slightly earlier) razors and cases to sell to soldiers. (Razors were not standard issue as I understand it; only shaving soap was. Soldiers bought their own razors.) Seems too much of a coincidence that we have slants (so far: Lutz; Sonnal) turning up in Rotbart cases. This is actually getting more interesting! 

[Image: Y5j2FjC.jpg]

Nah, not mine, I just googled "German Slant Razors" and looked at the pictures. I would never be able to live with a twisted razor, it's like a crooked picture on the wall, I'd have to fix it!  Wink

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 01-06-2023, 05:33 PM
#9
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Close, another Lutz.

[Image: SIf5OLf.jpg]

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 01-06-2023, 05:42 PM
#10
  • Shaun
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  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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(01-06-2023, 05:33 PM)TobyC Wrote: Close, another Lutz.

[Image: SIf5OLf.jpg]

I discussed this picture above. It is not, in my view, a Lutz. Not the one on the right, anyway. Possibly the one on the left, but the image poster (Hellas) refers to the one on the right as a Lutz wherever he posts that image. He also posted separately about the one on the left, claiming it is a Romi, but provides no evidence.

Yes, I nit-pick.

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 01-06-2023, 05:53 PM
#11
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I tried.

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 01-07-2023, 07:01 AM
#12
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This is a generic slant, that was marketed by oodles of brands back then. I call it a Lutz, as the first of this model I got was NOS and packaged in a Lutz shipper. Whether or not it was produced by them remains a mystery. Basically, the shipper decides the brand, however there's no guarantee the razor and shipper/case belong together. A lot of mix and match has been done.
Same with the handle: in a way, this is a very generic handle design that is seen more often. Sometimes well executed (Lutz) sometimes sloopy executed (Yuma).
Some brands made markings on the cap, or fitted a different handle, or both. Oska (branded cap), Emir (branded cap), Pfeilrting (branded cap, different handle), Sonnal (different handle) come to mind.
Yes, Romi is one of the brands that sold this razor.

The pamphlet shown in post 5 does not show this razor, and the Rotbart in post 6 is a mismatch: Rotbart never produced/sold slants.

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 01-07-2023, 08:57 AM
#13
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(01-07-2023, 07:01 AM)efsk Wrote: This is a generic slant, that was marketed by oodles of brands back then. I call it a Lutz, as the first of this model I got was NOS and packaged in a Lutz shipper. Whether or not it was produced by them remains a mystery. Basically, the shipper decides the brand, however there's no guarantee the razor and shipper/case belong together. A lot of mix and match has been done.
Same with the handle: in a way, this is a very generic handle design that is seen more often. Sometimes well executed (Lutz) sometimes sloopy executed (Yuma).
Some brands made markings on the cap, or fitted a different handle, or both. Oska (branded cap), Emir (branded cap), Pfeilrting (branded cap, different handle), Sonnal (different handle) come to mind.
Yes, Romi is one of the brands that sold this razor.

The pamphlet shown in post 5 does not show this razor, and the Rotbart in post 6 is a mismatch: Rotbart never produced/sold slants.

Excellent, informative post, thank you sir!

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 01-07-2023, 09:05 AM
#14
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Merkur still makes a version of that handle.


[Image: 2KMYAFF.jpg]

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 01-07-2023, 12:52 PM
#15
  • Shaun
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  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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(01-07-2023, 07:01 AM)efsk Wrote: This is a generic slant, that was marketed by oodles of brands back then. I call it a Lutz, as the first of this model I got was NOS and packaged in a Lutz shipper. Whether or not it was produced by them remains a mystery. Basically, the shipper decides the brand, however there's no guarantee the razor and shipper/case belong together. A lot of mix and match has been done.
Same with the handle: in a way, this is a very generic handle design that is seen more often. Sometimes well executed (Lutz) sometimes sloopy executed (Yuma).
Some brands made markings on the cap, or fitted a different handle, or both. Oska (branded cap), Emir (branded cap), Pfeilrting (branded cap, different handle), Sonnal (different handle) come to mind.
Yes, Romi is one of the brands that sold this razor.

The pamphlet shown in post 5 does not show this razor, and the Rotbart in post 6 is a mismatch: Rotbart never produced/sold slants.

Interesting points, but I do detect patterns. And I do detect differences in these similar hex handles; I have tried to explain or speculate on this matter. Perhaps the maker made them with small differences as designating supply to the various factories? We’ll never know 

I have seen no Lutz that is packaged, for example, that does NOT have the smooth handle band at the end, for example. The Sonnal came with two types of handle as shown in images above. There may be another again. If the end of the handles with the diagonal score lines (like mine) were Lutz handles, we would see them in Lutz boxes, but we don’t. These are the distinguishing features, it seems to me. Different factory: different handle. Some are clearly stamped, as you say. I am not stating this all as factual, but observing the features forensically. I don’t think this is all just haphazard assembly and state it as fact, either. If it were, we’d see inconsistency in packaging examples, notably Lutz. 

I concede that the Sonnal factory picture example is not exactly the handle, but is does show that the simpler hex handle was made/put out by Sonnal. Then there is the boxed example of the Sonnal handle with the diagonal lines at the end. 

The Rotbart may indeed be a mis-match (I had myself stated there was no evidence of the production of a Rotbart slant) but two Rotbart cases housing a Lutz/Sonnal slant does seem a rather intriguing coincidence. I speculated as to why this may have occurred.

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 01-07-2023, 01:36 PM
#16
  • Shaun
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  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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I do realise there were may variations of design on the vintage (1930s) hex-handled German slant, but for now, I’m focusing on only the most common knurling design as seen, for example, on the generic Lutz. 

In case this thread is not clear regarding my speculation regarding the differences within this sub-group, I provide the following (blurry, sorry) images focusing on the ENDS of the otherwise very similar handles. The information I have researched shows that the below can be sorted by different makers. Happy to change in light of evidence to the contrary:

Lutz:
[Image: EIksc9q.jpg]

Dorko:
[Image: Yz8Keov.jpg]

Romi:
[Image: MMn0DSM.jpg]

Sonnal:
[Image: Jq7XfvZ.jpg]

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 01-07-2023, 07:41 PM
#17
  • chazt
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  • Queens, NY
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This is a fascinating thread. Thank you.

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 01-07-2023, 08:39 PM
#18
  • Shaun
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  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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(01-07-2023, 07:41 PM)chazt Wrote: This is a fascinating thread. Thank you.

Welcome. You know I gather, sift, observe and hypothesise. Wink  I’ll trash every bit of my own line of thought when and if compelling, contrary evidence comes along …and it often does! 

As you can see, I’m focused on the German slants of the period with the hex handle with a very specific patterning (whatever that patterning is called). I realise there are German slants of the same period and materials (zamac/zamak) with perhaps the exact generic differential head but with a different handle pattern, such as seen on the Ibsen, for example. For now, I’m not focused on those Smile

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 01-08-2023, 07:40 AM
#19
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Funny thing about the Ibsen-head is that their head is slanted the opposite direction of almost all other slants. Also sold under numerous brandnames, but at least it is known that Ibsen produced this head.

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 01-08-2023, 10:28 AM
#20
  • Shaun
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  • St Peters, NSW, Australia
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(01-08-2023, 07:40 AM)efsk Wrote: Funny thing about the Ibsen-head is that their head is slanted the opposite direction of almost all other slants. Also sold under numerous brandnames, but at least it is known that Ibsen produced this head.

I didn't know about the Ibsen slanting in the other direction, and they certainly are beautiful-looking razors. Thanks for that. It's been an interesting little survey, going through and swapping all this information.

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