Penhaligon English Fern shave Soap no tallow?!?!

I am staring at a box of Penhaligon’s English Fern shaving soap that does not have any tallow in any form listed in the ingredients!?! Can this be true? Am I missing something?

Uhhh. Yeah, that happened like 10 years ago.

Most of the big makers have done that - Trumpers about ruined their soaps with the reformulation. 
Pens was one that was met with the loudest complaints. Their first reformulation was reported to be ... less than ideal.  Being a premium product, they have since redone it at least once.
More recently Tabac and Speick have removed it.  Haslinger too. 

(in fairness, Tabac's wasn't a 'decision' so much as a supply issue, or so I have read)

Once MDC hit and showed that respectable lather could be made well without tallow, it seems several makers followed.

Not that I am onboard with this -  as I sit on a pile of vintage Williams, supplemented with DR Harris, Arko, MWF and a few now 'vintage' Tabac pucks.

Fortunately, D.R. Harris still has tallow and is an excellent soap.

You may want to consider Sir Arthur soap by Gentleman's Nod.  It's an artisan tallow soap which is not triple milled.  However, the scent is a close clone of English Fern.

Gentleman's Nod Sir Arthur Tallow Shaving Soap (bullgooseshaving.com)

I knew about the other fragrances but I thought English Fern was long gone and forgotten about. If this new formulation is bad then I’m passing on it.

I've tried a couple of vegan soaps and they were not necessarily bad but not up to a good tallow soap for me.  I'm converting back to tallow soaps.

(02-09-2023, 01:51 PM)Mouser Wrote: I knew about the other fragrances but I thought English Fern was long gone and forgotten about. If this new formulation is bad then I’m passing on it.

Hard to say if it's bad.  The original reformulation after they first removed the tallow was pretty widely panned, so it was re-formulated at least once more.
I don't see much Penhaligon traffic here so you might have better luck on another forum - but if you're interested in Pens stuff, I'm guessing it's for the smell-goods, and the tallow is a preference.
Where are you even finding it?  Pens site doesn't even list shaving soaps anymore and all I could find were 'bay listings from 70 USD on up - no tallow.  

I'd think for that kind of entry fee you might want to look at Czech & Speake - they do still list tallow as the 2nd ingredient - though no English Fern.    
It is possible to make an excellent soap without tallow - just like you can make a bad soap with it (the final iteration of Williams is testament to that).  

However, if it's tallow you are after - then yeah, best to look elsewhere, and your best bet if you are after a killer scent are the artisans, not the (former) big houses.

(02-09-2023, 01:51 PM)Mouser Wrote: I knew about the other fragrances but I thought English Fern was long gone and forgotten about. If this new formulation is bad then I’m passing on it.

Ken
You're going to have to scour the aftermarket for vintage Fern. It'll be pricey.

(02-09-2023, 08:50 PM)norton Wrote:

(02-09-2023, 01:51 PM)Mouser Wrote: I knew about the other fragrances but I thought English Fern was long gone and forgotten about. If this new formulation is bad then I’m passing on it.

I'd think for that kind of entry fee you might want to look at Czech & Speake - they do still list tallow as the 2nd ingredient - though no English Fern.    
It is possible to make an excellent soap without tallow - just like you can make a bad soap with it (the final iteration of Williams is testament to that).  

However, if it's tallow you are after - then yeah, best to look elsewhere, and your best bet if you are after a killer scent are the artisans, not the (former) big houses.

There is confusion as to whether C&S has tallow.  Apparently, it was reformulated without the tallow but the company never updated the ingredients list on the website or box.  We had a thread on this in 2021.

New New Czech and Speake 88 Shave Soap (shavenook.com)

I tried the reformulated C&S.  It has a different color than the original tallow formula and lathers poorly.  It produces a bubbly, airy lather which quickly disappears.  This is exactly what happened with Trumper's when it reformulated it's great soap and removed the tallow.

(02-10-2023, 07:46 AM)TheLegalRazor Wrote:

(02-09-2023, 08:50 PM)norton Wrote:

(02-09-2023, 01:51 PM)Mouser Wrote: I knew about the other fragrances but I thought English Fern was long gone and forgotten about. If this new formulation is bad then I’m passing on it.

I'd think for that kind of entry fee you might want to look at Czech & Speake - they do still list tallow as the 2nd ingredient - though no English Fern.    
It is possible to make an excellent soap without tallow - just like you can make a bad soap with it (the final iteration of Williams is testament to that).  

However, if it's tallow you are after - then yeah, best to look elsewhere, and your best bet if you are after a killer scent are the artisans, not the (former) big houses.

There is confusion as to whether C&S has tallow.  Apparently, it was reformulated without the tallow but the company never updated the ingredients list on the website or box.  We had a thread on this in 2021.

New New Czech and Speake 88 Shave Soap (shavenook.com)

I tried the reformulated C&S.  It has a different color than the original tallow formula and lathers poorly.  It produces a bubbly, airy lather which quickly disappears.  This is exactly what happened with Trumper's when it reformulated it's great soap and removed the tallow.

(02-10-2023, 03:02 AM)primotenore Wrote:

(02-09-2023, 01:51 PM)Mouser Wrote: I knew about the other fragrances but I thought English Fern was long gone and forgotten about. If this new formulation is bad then I’m passing on it.

Ken
You're going to have to scour the aftermarket for vintage Fern. It'll be pricey.

Boy, I’m still not back fully but Primo I actually do have somewhat less than half a puck of the good stuff. My cousin has a few and he gave me a half which I used often until I realized I’d soon use it up and now I can’t bear to use it again until I find another, which may be never.

(02-24-2023, 02:21 PM)Mouser Wrote:

(02-10-2023, 03:02 AM)primotenore Wrote:

(02-09-2023, 01:51 PM)Mouser Wrote: I knew about the other fragrances but I thought English Fern was long gone and forgotten about. If this new formulation is bad then I’m passing on it.

Ken
You're going to have to scour the aftermarket for vintage Fern. It'll be pricey.

Boy, I’m still not back fully but Primo I actually do have somewhat less than half a puck of the good stuff. My cousin has a few and he gave me a half which I used often until I realized I’d soon use it up and now I can’t bear to use it again until I find another, which may be never.

I get it, Ken. I would reply: "You can't take it with you"
Enjoy it, my friend.

I could also reply, "Better to have had Penhaligon's English Fern and used it up, than never having had a chance to try it at all" That would be ME!!! 

(02-24-2023, 02:43 PM)primotenore Wrote:

(02-24-2023, 02:21 PM)Mouser Wrote:

(02-10-2023, 03:02 AM)primotenore Wrote: Ken
You're going to have to scour the aftermarket for vintage Fern. It'll be pricey.

Boy, I’m still not back fully but Primo I actually do have somewhat less than half a puck of the good stuff. My cousin has a few and he gave me a half which I used often until I realized I’d soon use it up and now I can’t bear to use it again until I find another, which may be never.

I get it, Ken. I would reply: "You can't take it with you"
Enjoy it, my friend.

I could also reply, "Better to have had Penhaligon's English Fern and used it up, than never having had a chance to try it at all" That would be ME!!! 

Thank you Primo, you’re absolutely right. I’m at my son’s wedding tonight and when I get home Sunday it’s English Fern day. I don’t have the aftershave but I do have the EdT. Thanks for the much needed kick in the arse.

(02-24-2023, 04:07 PM)Mouser Wrote:

(02-24-2023, 02:43 PM)primotenore Wrote:

(02-24-2023, 02:21 PM)Mouser Wrote: Boy, I’m still not back fully but Primo I actually do have somewhat less than half a puck of the good stuff. My cousin has a few and he gave me a half which I used often until I realized I’d soon use it up and now I can’t bear to use it again until I find another, which may be never.

I get it, Ken. I would reply: "You can't take it with you"
Enjoy it, my friend.

I could also reply, "Better to have had Penhaligon's English Fern and used it up, than never having had a chance to try it at all" That would be ME!!! 

Thank you Primo, you’re absolutely right. I’m at my son’s wedding tonight and when I get home Sunday it’s English Fern day. I don’t have the aftershave but I do have the EdT. Thanks for the much needed kick in the arse.

My job is done here... Congrats on your son's marriage!