10-22-2012, 10:42 AM
#1
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Disclaimer: This is not a complaint. This is a warning. I was asked to post this information so the rest of the community is aware when making purchases. In all other respects, I have no issues with the quality of the product. Only the inaccurate description of the product.

I purchased this brush directly from Frank Shaving. Or at least from the person claiming he is Frank and is behind the brand.

It is advertised as a 28mm knot with a 54mm loft.

The actual product received measures 26mm with a 60mm loft.

Contacting Frank about the issue, he denies anything is wrong with the brush. Basically I think he's just calling me a liar. I even presented him pictures of the caliper measurements.

So... Shave Nook, you have been warned.

P.S. In all other respects, the brush doesn't present any problems. I'll probably steam out the knot, drill the hole deeper and keep it to keep my Chubby chasing at bay.

9 2,988
 10-22-2012, 10:45 AM
#2
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
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Thanks for the warning , Lee.

GDCarrington suffered the same problem with FS and a synthetic custom brush.This is why I wont get any FS brushes from that seller.

I think you can get your money back from Paypal.

86 7,123
 10-22-2012, 10:54 AM
#3
  • Dave
  • Moderator Emeritus
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He's really let his business go down hill lately.

116 3,804
 10-22-2012, 11:13 AM
#4
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An occasional problem can be chalked up to a simple mistake. There appears to be a real pattern developing of unhappy campers with Frank's.

This was not the case, 1-2 years ago.

3 452
 10-22-2012, 11:30 AM
#5
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Frank who?

PayPal resolution center and let us know how it ends.

7 358
 10-22-2012, 11:43 AM
#6
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(10-22-2012, 10:42 AM)asharperrazor Wrote: I purchased this brush directly from Frank Shaving. The contact person says he is Frank btw.

It is advertised as a 28mm knot with a 54mm loft.

The actual product received measures 26mm with a 60mm loft.

Contacting Frank about the issue, he denies anything is wrong with the brush. Basically I think he's just calling me a liar. I even presented him pictures of the caliper measurements.

So... Shave Nook, you have been warned.

P.S. In all other respects, the brush doesn't present any problems. I'll probably steam out the knot, drill the hole deeper and keep it to keep my Chubby chasing at bay.

Lee,

He has been repeatedly doing this in terms of what he advertises and what he claims to be "custom" builds. I have seen the same thing over 5 forums so this is simply bilking of his customers, or should I say former customers.

I showed him caliper measurements as well. Twice and diagrammed for verification. I have had more than enough of Frank Shaving!

1 2,827
 10-22-2012, 11:52 AM
#7
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
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As we say in Spanish : "they're covering themselves with Glory..."
No more FS for me , thanks.

86 7,123
 10-22-2012, 12:04 PM
#8
  • Tonality
  • Attempted Soap Sabbatical
  • Boston
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This is really unfortunate. Ian was really friendly and easy to work with when I was ordering a custom brush from him and he met my specifications exactly. His prices are getting a bit ridiculous though, that brush you ordered, Lee, especially for what the dimensions ended up being, was too much. If it had the listed loft and knot, then it seems a bit more reasonable.

35 1,732
 10-22-2012, 12:24 PM
#9
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I haven't had any direct experience with Mr. Tang. He seems to be a fine fellow from what I've read.

I wouldn't be posting this if they got the knot diameter correct to within at least a millimeter since that's the industry "standard". But 2mm smaller knot and 6mm more loft.... That's ridiculous.

And I even measured using the "generous" method.

9 2,988
 10-22-2012, 12:30 PM
#10
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(10-22-2012, 11:52 AM)Teiste Wrote: As we say in Spanish : "they're covering themselves with Glory..."
No more FS for me , thanks.

That's a beautiful statement, one for the ages!

3 452
 10-22-2012, 12:44 PM
#11
  • Johnny
  • Super Moderator
  • Wausau, Wisconsin, USA
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Lee, I have a few questions because I'm just old and confused.

You either make or have someone make brushes that you sell and from what some have said they are good brushes.

You are always on the lookout for and purchase Simpsons, Rooney, and M&F brushes. You keep some, you sell the rest.

I guess what has me confused is why would you be interested in a Chinese made brush someone sells on eBay when everyone in the free world knows it's not as good as the major brand brushes that you already have.

I personally think that instead of stating False Advertising By Frank's (if this is actually Frank) we would be better served saying beware of this seller.

If you have not done so, you need to bring this to the attention of both eBay and PayPal.

Now Lee, lesson learned. Don't send anymore of your hard earned money to China.

173 23,484
 10-22-2012, 12:57 PM
#12
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(10-22-2012, 12:44 PM)Johnny Wrote: You either make or have someone make brushes that you sell and from what some have said they are good brushes.

I do, thanks.

Quote:You are always on the lookout for and purchase Simpsons, Rooney, and M&F brushes. You keep some, you sell the rest.

True. I don't have the capital to make every brush I want to own/experience. Plus I call it R&D expense. Biggrin


Quote:I guess what has me confused is why would you be interested in a Chinese made brush someone sells on eBay when everyone in the free world knows it's not as good as the major brand brushes that you already have.

I had an itch for a CH2 and didn't want to drop the $225 for one. I also wanted a large and super dense knot to experiment with. TGN ones weren't dense enough. Neither is the regular line of FS.

Quote:I personally think that instead of stating False Advertising By Frank's (if this is actually Frank) we would be better served saying beware of this seller.

If the seller wasn't Frank himself, I would agree. However, in my numerous dealings with this person, he not only says he is Frank of Frank's shaving, but he's behind the website Frankshaving.com and wants to sell me brushes. So, this guy is either definitely Frank himself or is Frank corporate. He says Ian Tang is a reseller of his.

Quote:If you have not done so, you need to bring this to the attention of both eBay and PayPal.

Now Lee, lesson learned. Don't send anymore of your hard earned money to China.

Well, like I said, I got a product, it's 80% in conformation with what I ordered. Paypal would just say return it and I haven't decided if I'm that upset with the brush overall. It does satisfy that CH2 craving for now. I have to use rubber bands, but it still scratches that itch.

I posted this info because someone asked me to warn the community about it. And after thinking about it, I agreed that the community should be aware.

I really did not want to air this laundry out in the open, but Frank just continually denies anything is wrong. And that's just...wrong.

9 2,988
 10-22-2012, 01:01 PM
#13
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
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Well , Lee have done right and I see how it goes now with this FS "re seller" on ebay.I was actually going to order a brush with a Rooney 1/2 style handle , but now...no thanks.Ill safe the money for something better that I know is coming.Biggrin

86 7,123
 10-22-2012, 01:46 PM
#14
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OK, an old fart has to chime in here. This advice I'm about to give has always served me well, and I learned it in the college of hard knocks... There was a time when I did things differently.

Do it once, do it right. It's that simple, yet surprisingly complex.

Greed and desire move us to buy cheap crap that will plague us for years. Save the pennies, buy the good stuff, care for it and have it for life. Once I began doing that my consumer problems stopped immediately. Folks selling top notch stuff take care of the consumer. Folks selling cheap crap (to lure one in) are just looking for the next mark.

OK, while I'm on the subject, let 3 fingers point directly back to the buyer too. You can't con an honest person; it's that simple. Maintain proper values and you won't fall for the con since it requires greed and avarice (on the part of the mark) to bait the mark required for the con.

Hey, do what you want, it's your money and your blood pressure.

I do it once, do it right, have it forever. Quality instead of immediate gratification. If I can't afford it and want it, I save, pay cash, and I own the good stuff, the bank doesn't own it. If it turns out that I don't save for it, I probably didn't either need it after all, or I didn't want it badly enough. It's a great "need filter".

32 6,308
 10-22-2012, 01:56 PM
#15
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Interesting perpsective.

However, this has nothing to do with the quality of the product (which I have no complaints about), but about the false advertising of the seller/manufacturer. It'd be one thing if I said the FS didn't live up to expectations (the forums would be completely justified in crucifying me for complaining), but this is about false advertising.

The quality of the product is not at issue. The accuracy of the product description is.

I mean, it's not like I went into some back alley and bought a black market shaving brush.

9 2,988
 10-22-2012, 02:14 PM
#16
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One vendor/maker calling out another vendor/maker Rolleyes

Not cool if you ask me. Dodgy

I can see purchasing competitors brushes and product to compare and see what you can take from it and expand. But to buy one, then trash it publicly is pretty low if you ask me. We've all seen razor makers purchase and sell products after tyring and working with them, to get specs and design ideas (no problem with that), but to buy one and then post how crappy it is and how bad the service you received from the maker? really?

This type of post/thread is reason enough to avoid one vendor, and it's not Franks.

8 2,718
 10-22-2012, 02:32 PM
#17
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Wow. I don't know that seller but Ian has always been pretty stand up and the products I have bought from him are good. I have recieved brushes not in stated spec from a lot of companies not just ebay sellers. Ask for a refund or dispute through PayPal.

2 697
 10-22-2012, 02:35 PM
#18
  • Dave
  • Moderator Emeritus
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I don't see a problem with pointing out when a company sends you the wrong item. GDCarrington and a few others have ordered brushes that didn't come in as they ordered them. I think a word of warning is welcome. He spends money just like the rest of us and is well within his right to voice his concern when something is not up to spec.

116 3,804
 10-22-2012, 02:44 PM
#19
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(10-22-2012, 02:35 PM)Dave Wrote: I don't see a problem with pointing out when a company sends you the wrong item. GDCarrington and a few others have ordered brushes that didn't come in as they ordered them. I think a word of warning is welcome. He spends money just like the rest of us and is well within his right to voice his concern when something is not up to spec.


That's fine but when a lot of people here Frank shaving they think Ian. This seller is not Ian, has 56 transactions and has been on Ebay less than a year. I have received shedders, non-spec knots etc from a few well known companies. I do not trash the brand out of hand on a public forum from one negative impression.

2 697
 10-22-2012, 02:51 PM
#20
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I think we call shaving forums gentlemanly for a reason. Sometimes, it's a question of ethics and etiquette. The way a moderator can't express sometimes their mood, opinions, and inclination due to diplomacy, the same way a vendor has to consider carefully what to say and how much to say.

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