10-22-2012, 11:24 AM
#1
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
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OK...lets stop the speculation.

Here are the ingredients for Razorock XXX:

RazoRock XXX Shave Cream Ingredients: Water(l’eau), palmitic acid, cocos nucifera(coconut) oil, stearic acid, potassium hydroxide, propylene glycol, myristic acid, parfum(fragrance), glycerin, peg-150 distearate, tetrasodium edta, triticum vulgare (wheat) germ oil, prunus armeniacus dulcis(sweet almond) oil, hydrolized wheat protein, malva sylvestris(mallow)extract, melissa officinalis(flower / leaf) extract, menthyl lactate, mentha aquatica(watermint) extract, hedera helix (ivy) extract, vitis vinifera(grapefruit) extract, cinnamal, limonene, eugenol, hydroxycitronellal, linalool, benzyl salicylate, citral.

Here is a picture of the ingredients for AdP. As you can see...THEY ARE NOT EXACTLY THE SAME. Similar yes...the same NO.

   

I guess it is the "masters" who are owed an apology. Tongue

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 10-22-2012, 11:27 AM
#2
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...and my skin can tell the difference. I get a rash with XXX but not with AdP.

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 10-22-2012, 11:29 AM
#3
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
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(10-22-2012, 11:27 AM)churchilllafemme Wrote: ...and my skin can tell the difference. I get a rash with XXX but not with AdP.

Me too. I figured it was time to introduce some facts to the debate. Biggrin

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 10-22-2012, 11:39 AM
#4
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
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I have used both creams back to 2011 , and theyre the same.Yes , I know that the ingredient list arent the same (or in same order) but thats quiet normal , to be honest.The company which makes AdP and RR XXX Im sure "suggested" that.

I wrote this back in 2011 comparing both creams (is in Spanish) so I was well aware of the ingredients list : http://www.foroafeitado.com/foro/showthread.php?p=95824

I tested the creams for several days , shaving one part of my face with one , and the other half with the other.

Yes, the creams are the same , and Joe have provided the proof today.I dont know what else do we need to believe him and believe that we all have been into a marketing test.

PS; you are not one of those "masters" out there Phil , but I can call you "master" , if you want me to! Biggrin

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 10-22-2012, 11:40 AM
#5
  • bullgoose
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  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
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(10-22-2012, 11:39 AM)Teiste Wrote: I have used both creams back to 2011 , and theyre the same.Yes , I know that the ingredient list arent the same (or in same order) but thats quiet normal , to be honest.The company which makes AdP and RR XXX Im sure "suggested" that.

I wrote this back in 2011 comparing both creams (is in Spanish) so I was well aware of the ingredients list : http://www.foroafeitado.com/foro/showthread.php?p=95824

I tested the creams for several days , shaving one part of my face with one , and the other half with the other.

Yes, the creams are the same , and Joe have provided the proof today.I dont know what else do we need to believe him and believe that we all have been into a marketing test.

PS; you are not one of those "masters" out there Phil , but I can call you "master" , if you want me to! Biggrin

It is only normal if they are different! Biggrin As I have stated repededly, XXX sets my face on fire like nobody's business while I can use AdP daily without issue. Clearly something is different. This is backed up by the difference in ingredients.

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 10-22-2012, 11:40 AM
#6
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
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BTW , I will re buy Acqua Di Parma again.My love for that cream is very big : Acqua Di Parma shaving cream (tub).

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 10-22-2012, 11:45 AM
#7
  • Teiste
  • Moderator Emeritus
  • Salt Lake City,UT
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(10-22-2012, 11:40 AM)bullgoose Wrote:
(10-22-2012, 11:39 AM)Teiste Wrote: I have used both creams back to 2011 , and theyre the same.Yes , I know that the ingredient list arent the same (or in same order) but thats quiet normal , to be honest.The company which makes AdP and RR XXX Im sure "suggested" that.

I wrote this back in 2011 comparing both creams (is in Spanish) so I was well aware of the ingredients list : http://www.foroafeitado.com/foro/showthread.php?p=95824

I tested the creams for several days , shaving one part of my face with one , and the other half with the other.

Yes, the creams are the same , and Joe have provided the proof today.I dont know what else do we need to believe him and believe that we all have been into a marketing test.

PS; you are not one of those "masters" out there Phil , but I can call you "master" , if you want me to! Biggrin

It is only normal if they are different! Biggrin As I have stated repededly, XXX sets my face on fire like nobody's business while I can use AdP daily without issue. Clearly something is different. This is backed up by the difference in ingredients.

Let it "rest" for more time and check it out again.At least , let it rest for 4 to 5 months more.It will get a much harder consistency and will even get more yellowish , like AdP cream.Also , the scent , would be developed to a more subtle one , like AdP one.

Also , Im sure that the company behind both creams , didnt want any problems with AdP , hence the different ingredient list , with the same ingredients...

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 10-22-2012, 11:53 AM
#8
  • bullgoose
  • The Enabler
  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
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(10-22-2012, 11:45 AM)Teiste Wrote:
(10-22-2012, 11:40 AM)bullgoose Wrote:
(10-22-2012, 11:39 AM)Teiste Wrote: I have used both creams back to 2011 , and theyre the same.Yes , I know that the ingredient list arent the same (or in same order) but thats quiet normal , to be honest.The company which makes AdP and RR XXX Im sure "suggested" that.

I wrote this back in 2011 comparing both creams (is in Spanish) so I was well aware of the ingredients list : http://www.foroafeitado.com/foro/showthread.php?p=95824

I tested the creams for several days , shaving one part of my face with one , and the other half with the other.

Yes, the creams are the same , and Joe have provided the proof today.I dont know what else do we need to believe him and believe that we all have been into a marketing test.

PS; you are not one of those "masters" out there Phil , but I can call you "master" , if you want me to! Biggrin

It is only normal if they are different! Biggrin As I have stated repededly, XXX sets my face on fire like nobody's business while I can use AdP daily without issue. Clearly something is different. This is backed up by the difference in ingredients.

Let it "rest" for more time and check it out again.At least , let it rest for 4 to 5 months more.It will get a much harder consistency and will even get more yellowish , like AdP cream.Also , the scent , would be developed to a more subtle one , like AdP one.

Also , Im sure that the company behind both creams , didnt want any problems with AdP , hence the different ingredient list , with the same ingredients...

The ingredients are listed for a reason and this explanation makes no sense. If this is indeed true, the FDA would be interested. The soaps are very similar...we could even call them siblings. Identical twins though? No

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 10-22-2012, 11:58 AM
#9
  • Teiste
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  • Salt Lake City,UT
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(10-22-2012, 11:53 AM)bullgoose Wrote:
(10-22-2012, 11:45 AM)Teiste Wrote:
(10-22-2012, 11:40 AM)bullgoose Wrote: It is only normal if they are different! Biggrin As I have stated repededly, XXX sets my face on fire like nobody's business while I can use AdP daily without issue. Clearly something is different. This is backed up by the difference in ingredients.

Let it "rest" for more time and check it out again.At least , let it rest for 4 to 5 months more.It will get a much harder consistency and will even get more yellowish , like AdP cream.Also , the scent , would be developed to a more subtle one , like AdP one.

Also , Im sure that the company behind both creams , didnt want any problems with AdP , hence the different ingredient list , with the same ingredients...

The ingredients are listed for a reason and this explanation makes no sense. If this is indeed true, the FDA would be interested.

The FDA?Dont mention me the FDA , please Phil...Im having a problem with them right now since they want to label the food that we make a "supplement" instead of "real food made with raw organic ingredients , full of vitamins and minerals..". Seriously , what a maphia the FDA is....

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 10-22-2012, 12:20 PM
#10
  • VT_Hokie
  • 2-Band Bandito
  • Charleston, SC
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They're the same. I could walk down the aisle of my local supermarket and pick up 2 cans of beans that would have slight variations in the formulas. Would I say they were different? No. They're beans.

This is a simple tub of shaving soap we're talking about here. Far more complex than beans, but the same principle applies. We can talk about tiny details that are printed on the back of a label until we're blue in the face, but the fact of the matter is that this is an apples to apples comparison of two products that despite their differences, are one in the same.

We've known all along that there were slight variations in the formula, but we've also known what the end goal of this soap was. In my mind, this product was everything that it was supposed to be and nothing it wasn't.

This product, for all intensive purposes, is AdP. Not only is it AdP, but its AdP at one hell of a price. Those who were making a big deal out of the differences in the formula and publicly bashing Joe for being a fraud and a liar missed the point entirely. If you can't understand what, or why this product was, than you don't understand RazoRock.

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 10-22-2012, 12:41 PM
#11
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I have also heard the ingredients were intentionally rearranged for the label of XXX, but it is in fact AdP. The FDA does not regulate cosmetics, and furthermore are often late in investigating supplements that have actually caused significant harm to individuals. The order of the XXX ingredients is surely not a priority for the FDA. Also, I have heard the "XXX irritates me and AdP does not" several times, as well as vice versa. You must understand that the composition of the cream changes with age, and the particular irritant may have decayed or have been altered enough to change its behavior with your skin. XXX was manufactured quite recently, whereas I would imagine AdP does not sell product very fast. This is informed speculation of course.

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 10-22-2012, 12:49 PM
#12
  • bullgoose
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  • Redondo Beach, California, U.S.A
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(10-22-2012, 12:41 PM)squatzilla801 Wrote: I have also heard the ingredients were intentionally rearranged for the label of XXX, but it is in fact AdP. The FDA does not regulate cosmetics, and furthermore are often late in investigating supplements that have actually caused significant harm to individuals. The order of the XXX ingredients is surely not a priority for the FDA. Also, I have heard the "XXX irritates me and AdP does not" several times, as well as vice versa. You must understand that the composition of the cream changes with age, and the particular irritant may have decayed or have been altered enough to change its behavior with your skin. XXX was manufactured quite recently, whereas I would imagine AdP does not sell product very fast. This is informed speculation of course.

Everything that I import (soaps, creams, aftershave, etc) must undergo "FDA Clearance" and they do require an ingredient list. I am not saying it is a priority but, I am charged a fee with every shipment for FDA clearance. Cool

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 10-22-2012, 12:52 PM
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(10-22-2012, 12:41 PM)squatzilla801 Wrote: I have also heard the ingredients were intentionally rearranged for the label of XXX, but it is in fact AdP.

Heard where?

As far as I know, Joe has never said "AdP is exactly the same as XXX." He's hinted at it, taken photos of a tub of XXX next to a box labeled "AdP", but hasn't said whether they are the same or not.

Being made by the same manufacturer is not the same - anyone who has used Valobra and AoS (made by the same company) knows they smell nothing alike.

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 10-22-2012, 12:55 PM
#14
  • Teiste
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  • Salt Lake City,UT
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(10-22-2012, 12:52 PM)insomniac Wrote:
(10-22-2012, 12:41 PM)squatzilla801 Wrote: I have also heard the ingredients were intentionally rearranged for the label of XXX, but it is in fact AdP.

Heard where?

As far as I know, Joe has never said "AdP is exactly the same as XXX." He's hinted at it, taken photos of a tub of XXX next to a box labeled "AdP", but hasn't said whether they are the same or not.

Being made by the same manufacturer is not the same - anyone who has used Valobra and AoS (made by the same company) knows they smell nothing alike.

My friend , smells nothing alike , since Valobra , AoS and C&S soaps contains different ingredients for the parfum/scent , but we all know that they are the same soap , with different scents , and provides great lather too , all of them.

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 10-22-2012, 12:55 PM
#15
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Razorock XXX could be made under contract by AdP to a different recipe. The presence of palmitic acid in the XXX shows that it may be to meet costs since it is usually a lot cheaper then coconut distillates

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 10-22-2012, 01:01 PM
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(10-22-2012, 12:55 PM)Teiste Wrote: My friend , smells nothing alike , since Valobra , AoS and C&S soaps contains different ingredients for the parfum/scent , but we all know that they are the same soap , with different scents , and provides great lather too , all of them.

Seems like using a different "fragrance" could cause irritation problems.

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 10-22-2012, 01:03 PM
#17
  • Johnny
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  • Wausau, Wisconsin, USA
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Many breeds of cows exist today. Historically, there was little distinction between dairy cows and cattle cows, although in recent times breeding and specialization have become more prevalent with aims of increasing production. We can narrow down dairy cattle into six major breeds. They include; Aryshire, Brown-Swiss, Guernsy, Holstein-Friesian, Jersey and Milking Shorthorn.

Holsteins are the most common breed and are known for outstanding milk production. Holsteins are what most likely comes to mind when thinking about a dairy cow with their classic black and white markings. These markings can also be red and white which is the expression of a recessive gene.

Milk produced from the Brown-Swiss breed contains a high amount of butterfat and protein which makes their milk excellent for making cheese. They are large, but very docile. Their name comes from their origin in the Swiss Alps. Years of breeding to withstand the harsh climate of the Alps have resulted in a breed that is resilient and strong.

Milk produced by the Guernsey are unique. The milk has a golden colour due to an exceptionally high content of beta carotene. At 5%, thir milk also has a high percentage of butterfat and a high protein content of 3.7. They are smaller which also translates to less feeding!

The Ayrshire cattle is a breed of dairy cattle originated from Ayrshire in Scotland. They are medium sized, strong and rugged, and have reddish markings. They are common in commercial dairies. They would normally have long, upright horns, but they are usually dehorned as calves.

Jersey cattle are small. High butterfat conditions, 6% butterfat and 4% protein, and the ability to thrive on locally produced food. Jerseys come in all shades of brown, from light tan to almost black. They are frequently fawn in color. They are calm and docile animals, but tend to be a bit more nervous than other dairy cow breeds. They are also highly recommended cows for first time owners and marginal pasture. Their milk is often used for ice cream.

Milking Shorthorns are red, white, or red and white and are one of the oldest recognized breeds. They are docile, and are efficient producers of milk with high production. Once, the most popular of dairy cows, the Milking Shorthorn has declined in popularity, giving way to other more popular breeds such as Holsteins.

Now, what is the common denominator here? They are all milk cows, but the milk they produce is different. It's still milk, but it's different.

Now, what the hell does this have to do with this soap thread? Nothing other than to point out;

   

They are both soaps. They both lather and might even have a similar smell and feel, but they are different.

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 10-22-2012, 01:03 PM
#18
  • Teiste
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  • Salt Lake City,UT
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(10-22-2012, 01:01 PM)insomniac Wrote:
(10-22-2012, 12:55 PM)Teiste Wrote: My friend , smells nothing alike , since Valobra , AoS and C&S soaps contains different ingredients for the parfum/scent , but we all know that they are the same soap , with different scents , and provides great lather too , all of them.

Seems like using a different "fragrance" could cause irritation problems.

mmmm , it could be , I dont deny it , but I think is more related to some of the cream based ingredients more than the scent ones.Its , of course , my personal thought and opinion.Joe (and the maker) are the only ones who know.

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 10-22-2012, 01:09 PM
#19
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* SharpSpine envisions someone somewhere sitting back drumming their fingers together quietly saying "Excellent" to themselves over and over while reading these threads.

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 10-22-2012, 01:12 PM
#20
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(10-22-2012, 01:09 PM)SharpSpine Wrote: * SharpSpine envisions someone somewhere sitting back drumming their fingers together quietly saying "Excellent" to themselves over and over while reading these threads.

Someone who is trying to sell product...

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