10-25-2012, 03:35 AM
#1
User Info
I have a brush that needs a new knot but I need help deciding which one and what kind to buy. I have looked through the list a TGN and I think I am more confused than ever! I mainly use MWF or another soap and I mix it up on bowl lathering and face lathering. Which grade would be best for those needs? What is the difference between the bulb and the fan knots (besides the shape). I only have a Edwin Jagger basic brush and horse hair brush so I am not very knowledgeable of the different badger grades and how they work and feel.

Thanks

2 87
Reply
 10-25-2012, 03:46 AM
#2
  • DoubleB
  • Active Member
  • Zeeland, The Netherlands
User Info
Depends on what you want. You say you mainly use hard soaps and like to mix up bowl and face lathering. For that matter I would recommend a two-band Finest Extra Hair bulb shape. It has plenty of backbone and very soft tips.

Fan type knots are usually best for face lathering. Since you say you'd like to both face and bowl lather I would go for the bulb shape.

Loft is another thing you need to think about. What kind of knotsize are you looking into?

5 447
Reply
 10-25-2012, 03:47 AM
#3
  • Dave
  • Moderator Emeritus
User Info
What size knot do you need? I've used the Finest and the Silvertip and greatly prefer the Finest. It's a 2 Band knot and the current crop is very soft and how high you set the loft will determine your backbone.

116 3,804
Reply
 10-25-2012, 05:02 AM
#4
User Info
I have not removed the current knot yet but it is advertised as a 23mm so I am thinking a 22 w/ extra hair or a 24 if I make a little extra room. The shorter the loft the more backbone; correct?

2 87
Reply
 10-25-2012, 05:20 AM
#5
User Info
I would suggest going with something 2mm smaller than the actual diameter of the collar if you're going to do a reknot without opening it up more.

What type of brush is it?

0 652
Reply
 10-25-2012, 05:28 AM
#6
  • DoubleB
  • Active Member
  • Zeeland, The Netherlands
User Info
I would go for a 22mm finest XH then. You might need to open the hole up a bit, even for the 22mm XH. Set it around 48-50mm loft. you will have good backbone for face lathering but you will be able to bowl lather with it.

5 447
Reply
 10-25-2012, 06:54 AM
#7
User Info
(10-25-2012, 05:20 AM)Sodapopjones Wrote: I would suggest going with something 2mm smaller than the actual diameter of the collar if you're going to do a reknot without opening it up more.

What type of brush is it?

Vie Long 13061M

2 87
Reply
 10-25-2012, 10:24 AM
#8
User Info
You need to take a measurement of the knot hole diameter of the handle. . .not the diameter of the existing knot. Once you obtain the measurement, you'll be in a better position to order a knot.

I normally go with a knot that's 1 - 2mm smaller than the knot hole diameter. 1.5 - 2mm is best. For example, knot hole diameter is 22mm. . .purchase a 20mm knot.

I do not remove the existing knot until the new knot arrives and I take measurements of the new knot - there are variations. On the other hand, if I completely gut the old material in the handle, I'll remove the existing knot, take measurements of the new knot, and then create new bed for the new knot to sit on.

The Vie-Long handle you're using has a somewhat clear lower, so you'll need to exercise care on how far you drill down into the existing knot. This is why it's critical to take measurements of the new knot.

TGN knots are superb. I agree with what's been suggested already - Finest XH. . .bulb. I face and bowl lather. 48 - 49mm loft is excellent.

I've restored/reknotted quite a few handles. If you need more help, let me know.

4 127
Reply
 10-25-2012, 11:21 AM
#9
  • mikeperry
  • Senior Member
  • St Louis via the UK
User Info
(10-25-2012, 06:54 AM)Ga Shooter Wrote: Vie Long 13061M

Hi

I recommend removing the existing knot, then take an exact measurement of the knot hole.

I currently have two 13061 handles sitting waiting for me to put new knots in them.

One handle (my "original") has an opening of 23mm diameter, in that one I will fit a TGN - 22mm Finest Badger Knot XH.

The second handle (which will be going to Dave) has an opening of 24mm, in that one I will fit a TGN - 24mm Finest Badger Knot XH. I know from first-hand experience I will be able to fit the knot in the hole (even if I have to widen it very slightly with some sandpaper).

Good luck!

Take care, Mike

23 1,872
Reply
 10-25-2012, 12:27 PM
#10
User Info
The grades of hair are based upon how soft the tips are. Then there are completely different grades of hair, ie Finest & synthetic. I think everyone has described finest hair pretty well.

Softest = their super badger which is the same as the silvertip grade A, just enhanced/treated
Next softest is grade A
Next softest is silvertip
Next softest is best.
Bottom is pure/mixed etc.

Finest varies a lot with TGN, so one knot can be very soft, and another can be very scratchy. It's just the nature of the knots. If you can go down there personally and cherry pick, it would be ideal of course.

9 2,988
Reply
 10-25-2012, 03:13 PM
#11
User Info
(10-25-2012, 12:27 PM)asharperrazor Wrote: The grades of hair are based upon how soft the tips are. Then there are completely different grades of hair, ie Finest & synthetic. I think everyone has described finest hair pretty well.

Softest = their super badger which is the same as the silvertip grade A, just enhanced/treated
Next softest is grade A
Next softest is silvertip
Next softest is best.
Bottom is pure/mixed etc.

Finest varies a lot with TGN, so one knot can be very soft, and another can be very scratchy. It's just the nature of the knots. If you can go down there personally and cherry pick, it would be ideal of course.

Feel wise, the Super is very much like Simpson's Super, but not quite, it seems to not curl like Simpsons.

Grade A is somewhat comparable to Simpsons Best, but not exactly either.

I never was a fan of the finest, I know its actually comparable to Rooney's 2 band *I have both* but after spending a morning with Tony I think we both liked the Grade A the best, then again this was 3 years ago or so lol.

0 652
Reply
 10-25-2012, 03:18 PM
#12
User Info
Aaron's feel comparisons are pretty much where I put things. Minus the super as being = to Simpson super. I still classify it as being slightly softer than their Silvertip grade A. The difference barely perceptible enough to really warrant a different grading IMO. The tips are whiter though. So, visually distinct.

9 2,988
Reply
 10-25-2012, 05:52 PM
#13
User Info
GaS,

A fan shape, assuming the same size knot and loft, will feel larger. I have a TGN 20mm Finest Fan set to 46mm and it's simply superb. I only face lather.

32 6,309
Reply
 10-25-2012, 11:26 PM
#14
User Info
(10-25-2012, 03:18 PM)asharperrazor Wrote: Aaron's feel comparisons are pretty much where I put things. Minus the super as being = to Simpson super. I still classify it as being slightly softer than their Silvertip grade A. The difference barely perceptible enough to really warrant a different grading IMO. The tips are whiter though. So, visually distinct.

Here's my TGN Super and CH2,I will go so far as to say it feels softer at the tips than my CH2 Super, but because the CH2 is packed denser it has better backbone and a more noticeable feel on the face.

   
   

0 652
Reply
 10-26-2012, 10:32 AM
#15
User Info
The bigger knots, utilizing longer hairs, are closer to the "big dogs" hair.

9 2,988
Reply
 10-27-2012, 01:41 PM
#16
User Info
Thanks foe everyone's help and input. I steamed the knot out today and everything came right out with no problems or scraping. I have a very clean handle with a 23.8mm opening that is 17.33mm deep.

After reading all the posts I am a little confused about which knot. I think I have narrowed it down to 2 either this or this. Which would be better the "better" grade or the one with the extra hair? Thanks again for all of the help. When I get it finished I will get some pictures up.

2 87
Reply
 10-27-2012, 01:56 PM
#17
User Info
I spoke to Anthony (at TGN) a month or so ago and he said all of his knots have extra hair, even though the Finest with extra hair are designated with "XH" and silvertip and super badger only show "well packed" or "nicely packed."

I have no experience with the Super Badger knots, but have accomplished several with Silvertip Grade A. Most of my restorations have been with TGN Finest knots.

From what I understand, the ST Grade A has more backbone than the Super Badger. I see TGN is still out of 22mm Grade A knots. I'm a huge fan of TGN's Finest knots - soft tips and more backbone than the ST and Super Badger.

4 127
Reply
 10-27-2012, 05:33 PM
#18
User Info
(10-27-2012, 01:41 PM)Ga Shooter Wrote: Thanks foe everyone's help and input. I steamed the knot out today and everything came right out with no problems or scraping. I have a very clean handle with a 23.8mm opening that is 17.33mm deep.

After reading all the posts I am a little confused about which knot. I think I have narrowed it down to 2 either this or this. Which would be better the "better" grade or the one with the extra hair? Thanks again for all of the help. When I get it finished I will get some pictures up.

If you don't want backbone, but want a really soft brush, go with the Super,if you want backbone go with the finest.

I have 2 20mm Super's as well, they're about on par maybe even a little less than EJ Silvertip when it comes to backbone.

0 652
Reply
 10-30-2012, 03:22 PM
#19
User Info
I ordered a 22MM finest from TGN on Sunday night. I will keep you posted on how it goes. Thanks again for all the help so far.

2 87
Reply
 10-30-2012, 03:51 PM
#20
  • Dave
  • Moderator Emeritus
User Info
TGN Finest is my favorite. I have 1 brush with a TGN Finest, another on the way, and once I receive my Everready, I'll do a TGN finest in it as well.

116 3,804
Reply
Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)