11-14-2012, 12:47 PM
#1
  • mikeperry
  • Senior Member
  • St Louis via the UK
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Below is an edited version of this post...

I love the handle of the Vie-Long 13061, its overall look appeals to me and most importantly I find it extremely comfortable in the hand.

Early this year I traded some shaving stuff, as part of the trade I received a (spare) Vie-Long 13061.

Fast forward to the 16th August 2012, I decided it was time to try and remove the knot via the "Steam" method Teiste documented here, having already had one failure and one success using that method.

The Vie-Long 13061 knot came out remarkably easily, 20 minutes in the steam bath and the knot removal was almost 100% complete -- except for some minor epoxy/glue clean up which took me a further 10 minutes...

[Image: MDQxr.jpg]

Vie-Long Zurito 13061 Horse hair knot



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Horse hair knot removed from handle after 20 minutes in steam bath



[Image: Vm3Wr.jpg]

Horse hair knot removed from handle after 20 minutes in steam bath



Due to this happening to my "original" Vie-Long 13061, the above 13061 handle became surplus to my requirements. After going back n' forth with Dave we came to an agreement where he would end up with the "spare" 13061 handle re-knotted with his choice of knot...

Dave chose to go with a The Golden Nib 24mm 2-Band Finest knot set at a loft height to give the brush good backbone.

The knot hole in the "spare" 13061 handle measured 24mm across and 19mm deep (didn't want to drill deeper, due to the translucent nature of the handle), therefore I felt a 24mm knot would fit without too much of a problem.

Then a couple of weeks ago MaxP contacted me, without going into the details, I ended up speaking with him on the phone and luck would have it he had a new (spare) TGN 24mm 2-Band Finest knot which he was willing to sell. He said doing so would work out well for him, as he needed to buy a 22mm knot from TGN.

Once I received the knot from MaxP I was able to see the knot hole in the "spare" 13061 handle really needed to be widened by a millimeter or so, doing so would allow the knot to be fitted that much easier into the handle (I wouldn't be forcing the knot down into the hole).

[Image: ZPkDd.jpg]

Vie-Long Zurito 13061 handle and The Golden Nib 24mm Two Band Finest Badger knot



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Dry-fit prior to widening the knot hole -- 52mm loft height (this required the knot to be "forced" into knot hole)



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Dry-fit after widening the knot hole by 1mm (via sanding) -- 50mm loft height (no "forcing" required, the knot now fits nicely into the knot hole)



After speaking with Dave this morning and receiving his blessing, approval to move forward with gluing the knot into the handle...

[Image: 0ZAxn.jpg]

Getting ready for glue-up, using 5 Minute Epoxy



[Image: OMiqe.jpg]

Getting ready for glue-up, using 5 Minute Epoxy



[Image: y9VcF.jpg]

"Spare" 13061 handle fitted with a TGN 24mm Two Band Finest Badger knot -- 51mm final loft height



[Image: ucTXJ.jpg]

"Spare" 13061 handle fitted with a TGN 24mm Two Band Finest Badger knot -- 51mm final loft height

Final brush spec's:
  • Overall height: 100mm
  • Base: 49mm
  • Loft: 51mm
  • Knot hole diameter: 24mm, widened to 25mm
  • Knot hole depth: 19mm
  • Knot: TGN 24mm 2-Band Finest
Fingers-crossed Dave will like this shaving brush once he has it in his hands, and thank you for being so patient with me while going through this drawn-out process...

And hat-tip to MaxP for selling me the knot used in this project.

Edit: Fixed grammar.

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 11-14-2012, 12:50 PM
#2
  • Dave
  • Moderator Emeritus
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I think I will love it and as I've said in the past you are the man Mike!!

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 11-14-2012, 12:53 PM
#3
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This is about as cleanly presented a reknotting project description as I think I've read (although I'm sure there are others). It makes me want to go and reknot all of my brushes! Congrats Mike and of course Dave!

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 11-14-2012, 12:56 PM
#4
  • beartrap
  • Resident Цирюльник
  • Southern California
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It makes me think I CAN DO IT too!

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 11-14-2012, 01:05 PM
#5
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It definitely is a nice handle and now it has a deserving knot. Sorry horse lovers, but I'm not a lover of the horse. Enjoy it Dave, the TGN Finest knots are quite nice.

Great work Mike. You make it look so easy, yet I know I'll never even attempt that kind of work. There's a reason that all the tools, especially the power tools, in my house belong to my wife. Shok Tongue

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 11-14-2012, 02:13 PM
#6
  • oscar11
  • Senior Member
  • North Dakota
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Nice job, should make a fine brush. You can get a rechargeable Dremmel at WalMart for around $20, get the small sanding drum with it (pictured in the link). It makes fitting knots quick and easy. Enjoy your new brush.
http://www.walmart.com/ip/15173820?adid=...la&veh=sem

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 11-14-2012, 03:28 PM
#7
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Nice work and enjoy your new non-horse VL! Biggrin

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 11-15-2012, 08:46 AM
#8
  • mikeperry
  • Senior Member
  • St Louis via the UK
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Thanks gents Blush

Honestly the whole process is (very) easy and straight forward, especially when the process is broken-down into simple stages eg
  1. Determine if the knot can be safely removed via steam method (the majority of handles can stand-up to this knot removal method) OR via drilling (eg Ever-Ready handles tend to require going with this knot removal method).
  2. Remove the knot via selected method.
  3. Clean up knot hole ie Ensure all old "glue" is removed. Personally I prefer to use hand-tools for this process, yes it might take longer, but I enjoy using my hands, plus I feel this process offers a lot! more control, feedback...
  4. Take a precise knot hole diameter measurement, doing so will allow for the correct (new) knot size to be installed into the handle.
  5. Depending on the handle material, size and shape, you might be able to widen and/or deepen the knot hole to accommodate a larger (new) knot.
  6. Dry-fit the (new) knot into the handle, you shouldn't have to force the knot into the knot hole -- if you have to force the knot, either widen the hole slightly (if possible, convenient to do so) OR exchange the knot for the next smaller size.
  7. Also when dry-fitting play with loft height, normally what looks right, is right -- but a good rule of thumb for loft height is somewhere in the range of knot diameter x 2 to 2.5.
  8. Once you're happy everything has come together nicely (via dry-fit process) it's time to move onto final "glue-up".
  9. Personally I've only ever used 5 Minute Epoxy for "glue-up" and touch-wood I've not encountered any issues doing so (to date).
  10. Get everything you need for "glue-up" ready and laid out, you don't want to be running around looking for something once you've begun this process.
  11. "Glue" the knot into the handle, work smartly and swiftly during this process, but don't panic and rush (there's no need to, as long as you've worked through all the previous stages carefully and properly). Make sure you have some kind of measurement tool on hand, check, double-check that (final) loft height is where you expected it to be.
  12. Even though I use 5 Minute Epoxy I let everything set-up for at least 12 hours (overnight) before "playing" with the finished brush.

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 11-15-2012, 03:46 PM
#9
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Gret work, Mike, and enjoy the brush, Dave!

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 11-15-2012, 04:32 PM
#10
  • Dave
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Folks Mike does amazing work!! He's doing another one of mine as well which I'm sure he'll post about later.

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 11-15-2012, 05:00 PM
#11
  • OldDog23
  • Senior Member
  • BeanTown MetroWest
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Turned out super ! nice handle and shape + fine knot + great craftsmanship = match made in heaven ! quick query: what would you say the "old" glue is ? looks like "hot" glue ? seems to me, it would be a bear to get epoxy out of a handle if it needed a re-knot in the future ? never did one myself, have 10 thumbs...I did notice that epoxy is the way most re-knots I have followed, go with.

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 11-15-2012, 05:22 PM
#12
  • Tonality
  • Attempted Soap Sabbatical
  • Boston
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If that new TGN knot is anything like the one I have in my S7 handle, it will be pure bliss to shave with. Mine is very soft, with just the right amount of scrub, I don't think a brush could get any better.

Couple that with the beautiful 13061 handle and that is one very nice looking brush. Enjoy it, Dave!

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 11-15-2012, 06:22 PM
#13
  • MaxP
  • Senior Member
  • Madison, WI
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Mike - congrats on a beautiful job. Great photos as well.

Dave - if you decide to let go of it , PM me first please.

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 11-16-2012, 10:52 AM
#14
  • mikeperry
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  • St Louis via the UK
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(11-15-2012, 05:00 PM)OldDog23 Wrote: quick query: what would you say the "old" glue is ? looks like "hot" glue ? seems to me, it would be a bear to get epoxy out of a handle if it needed a re-knot in the future ? never did one myself, have 10 thumbs...I did notice that epoxy is the way most re-knots I have followed, go with.

Hi Steven

Honestly, I don't know, but I do think it was a glue of some sort and not an Epoxy.

I don't believe an Epoxy "glued in" knot would come out easily via the steam method, probably better taking out such a "glued in" knot via drilling method instead.

Guessing here, but I think Epoxy has become the "standard" in DIY re-knotting projects due to the strength it offers and its waterproof properties...

Take care, Mike

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 12-05-2012, 03:56 PM
#15
  • freddy
  • Senior Member
  • San Diego, California, U.S.A.
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Beautiful work, Mike! It almost makes me want to attempt the one brush I'd like to reknot. Operative word...almost. Biggrin

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 12-06-2012, 01:35 PM
#16
  • mikeperry
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  • St Louis via the UK
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(12-05-2012, 03:56 PM)freddy Wrote: Beautiful work, Mike! It almost makes me want to attempt the one brush I'd like to reknot. Operative word...almost. Biggrin

Hi Freddy

Go for it! the process is straightforward and easy (honest). Angel

Or send me a PM and I will happily do you a favour and take care of it for you...

Take care, Mike

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 12-06-2012, 02:00 PM
#17
  • Dave
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Freddy as you've seen, he does amazing work.

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 12-27-2014, 07:52 AM
#18
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Why in the world would you go to all of the expense and trouble of re-knotting a great (I have one, and I love it) shaving brush, when all you had to do was simply buy the brush of your dreams, and enjoy it? Unless the object of the exercise was to write an article, you ruined a great brush, and cost yourself some money. You must really like the handle that came with the brush, to go through all of that trouble, just so you could keep it. I find silvertip badger way too soft, sort of like a rag mop, and it holds way too much water. On the other end of the scale is hog bristle, which is great for making lather from hard soaps, but too stiff for the application. Horsehair works very well for me, and, as you know, everybody loves horses. [/size]

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 12-30-2014, 01:46 PM
#19
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(12-27-2014, 07:52 AM)n1iok Wrote: Why in the world would you go to all of the expense and trouble of re-knotting a great (I have one, and I love it) shaving brush, when all you had to do was simply buy the brush of your dreams, and enjoy it? Unless the object of the exercise was to write an article, you ruined a great brush, and cost yourself some money. You must really like the handle that came with the brush, to go through all of that trouble, just so you could keep it. I find silvertip badger way too soft, sort of like a rag mop, and it holds way too much water. On the other end of the scale is hog bristle, which is great for making lather from hard soaps, but too stiff for the application. Horsehair works very well for me, and, as you know, everybody loves horses. [/size]

I have the same brush and plan to do the same thing (re-knot). My horse knot is a terrible shedder and I find that it's far too scritchy for me. I've had it for over a year and countless lathers but it's still too scritchy.

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 12-30-2014, 03:27 PM
#20
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(12-27-2014, 07:52 AM)n1iok Wrote: Why in the world would you go to all of the expense and trouble of re-knotting a great (I have one, and I love it) shaving brush, when all you had to do was simply buy the brush of your dreams, and enjoy it? Unless the object of the exercise was to write an article, you ruined a great brush, and cost yourself some money. You must really like the handle that came with the brush, to go through all of that trouble, just so you could keep it. I find silvertip badger way too soft, sort of like a rag mop, and it holds way too much water. On the other end of the scale is hog bristle, which is great for making lather from hard soaps, but too stiff for the application. Horsehair works very well for me, and, as you know, everybody loves horses. [/size]

I am not sure you have never tried a very good 2-Band badger, but some of these have the best backbone you'll ever find in any brush. If you want supreme backbone, find yourself a Shavemac D-01 2-Band. Thumbup

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