12-02-2012, 05:51 AM
#1
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Hi everyone - spurred on by some recent open airing of gripes against certain vendors, I just want to gripe against open and immediate griping about vendors, especially about shipping. Unless you live near Phil, or West Coast Shaving, or Superior Shave, or any other vendor who maintains a brick & mortar shop, you will have to deal with shipping, and that carries its own inherent risks (for instance, our tax return got caught in a bizarre loop with USPS and was almost sent to Finland by accident). I've even had a few shipments lost or "misdelivered." My recourse was to speak with the vendor directly and privately. I would prefer if our members would do the same.

Obviously if the vendor is uncommunicative that's a whole separate kettle of fish. But I find it unnecessarily drags the vendor's reputation down when the first thing a member does when a shipment is not received on time is to post a new thread about it. And it's not exclusive to this community (in fact I think this place does a great job of being understanding generally-speaking).

Just wanted to get that off my chest.

Thanks,
Josh

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 12-02-2012, 06:19 AM
#2
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I have a simple rule I follow online and offline;

- If I have a problem, I tell the person I have a problem with and sort it out.
- If I have a good experience, I tell everybody.

In the end, it generates less friction and less angry people... leaving everyone happy. If - and it hasn't happened yet - I run into a problem with an online shop that can't be fixed by a bit of talk and a bit of patience, well... I guess I would vote with my feet and wallet and take my business elsewhere.

The airing of dirty laundry I see in places just isn't very becoming of gentlemen... YMMV off course Tongue

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 12-02-2012, 07:19 AM
#3
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I agree that the vendor should be afforded the opportunity to correct any issues before being badmouthed on the forums. It does get old paying for S&H though. I don't need to receive my goods within 48 hours. I expect some delay between purchase and received goods. It seems that some vendors have larger shipping expenses, but I choose to vote with my dollar rather than post negative comments. Additionally, I wait until I have a large order that will offset the shipping charges.

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 12-02-2012, 07:29 AM
#4
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I think in almost every situation problems with delivery (and products) is between a member and the vendor. Unless you believe fraud is involved (which is extremely rare) keep it to yourself. There is always a way to resolve an issue but involving others only adds fuel to the fire.

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 12-02-2012, 08:17 AM
#5
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We all know that if the merchant ships the package, it is now in the care of the shipping company. USPS, FedEx, UPS all seem to have their occasional hiccups, but the merchant can be no more responsible than shipping a well packed, correctly addressed package and communicating with the buyer.

Realistically I've probably purchased (making sure wife is not in the room), over 50 shave related purposes (razors, soaps/creams, brushes, blades)and had exactly one delay in receipt of the product. The merchant had emailed me a delivery confirmation within a few hours of my having placed the order, so I knew that he had met his side of our contract.

Sometimes patience is required (that's why it's a virtue). I would still consider my delayed shipment experience as a good customer service experience from the vendor.

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 12-02-2012, 09:40 AM
#6
  • Johnny
  • Super Moderator
  • Wausau, Wisconsin, USA
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(12-02-2012, 06:19 AM)WegianWarrior Wrote: I have a simple rule I follow online and offline;

- If I have a problem, I tell the person I have a problem with and sort it out.
- If I have a good experience, I tell everybody.

In the end, it generates less friction and less angry people... leaving everyone happy. If - and it hasn't happened yet - I run into a problem with an online shop that can't be fixed by a bit of talk and a bit of patience, well... I guess I would vote with my feet and wallet and take my business elsewhere.

The airing of dirty laundry I see in places just isn't very becoming of gentlemen... YMMV off course Tongue

Great explanation.

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 12-02-2012, 09:56 AM
#7
  • Mynorx
  • Active Member
  • Southern California
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I hate it when vendors get blamed for missing packages. Its out of their hands and its the curriers fault. I think vendors should start offering insurance and if customers don't wanna pay for it, then it shouldn't the vendor to take the hit for it.

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 12-02-2012, 10:03 AM
#8
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I think Thumper's rule helps us to keep the forum at a relatively high level of discourse: "If you can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all." Of course while that applies to vendors and fellow forum members, it clearly does not apply always to products.

(12-02-2012, 09:40 AM)Johnny Wrote:
(12-02-2012, 06:19 AM)WegianWarrior Wrote: I have a simple rule I follow online and offline;

- If I have a problem, I tell the person I have a problem with and sort it out.
- If I have a good experience, I tell everybody.

In the end, it generates less friction and less angry people... leaving everyone happy. If - and it hasn't happened yet - I run into a problem with an online shop that can't be fixed by a bit of talk and a bit of patience, well... I guess I would vote with my feet and wallet and take my business elsewhere.

The airing of dirty laundry I see in places just isn't very becoming of gentlemen... YMMV off course Tongue

Great explanation.

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 12-02-2012, 10:03 AM
#9
  • Howler
  • A calamophile and vintage razor lover
  • Fort Smith AR
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Things happen that are out of the control of vendor, in regards to shipping.

I have nothing but positive experiences with vendors and shipping.

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 12-02-2012, 10:09 AM
#10
  • Johnny
  • Super Moderator
  • Wausau, Wisconsin, USA
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I bought a brush from a vendor in Portugal (none that support this forum). They shipped the brush and the Portuguese postal service said it was dispatched. What ever that means. The USPS says it is still being dispatched in Portugal and that over a month ago. I figure the brush is setting on the counter of some Portuguese Customs Agent in Lisbon.

It was an inexpensive brush so I have just written it off. The vendor did their job, they got it to the postal service.

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 12-02-2012, 10:52 AM
#11
  • beartrap
  • Resident Цирюльник
  • Southern California
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(12-02-2012, 10:09 AM)Johnny Wrote: I bought a brush from a vendor in Portugal (none that support this forum). They shipped the brush and the Portuguese postal service said it was dispatched. What ever that means. The USPS says it is still being dispatched in Portugal and that over a month ago. I figure the brush is setting on the counter of some Portuguese Customs Agent in Lisbon.

It was an inexpensive brush so I have just written it off. The vendor did their job, they got it to the postal service.

I bet you it will show up. Many many times I had forgotten about international packages I had ordered, 2-3 months latter they were in my mailbox.

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 12-02-2012, 10:58 AM
#12
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(12-02-2012, 10:52 AM)beartrap Wrote:
(12-02-2012, 10:09 AM)Johnny Wrote: I bought a brush from a vendor in Portugal (none that support this forum). They shipped the brush and the Portuguese postal service said it was dispatched. What ever that means. The USPS says it is still being dispatched in Portugal and that over a month ago. I figure the brush is setting on the counter of some Portuguese Customs Agent in Lisbon.

It was an inexpensive brush so I have just written it off. The vendor did their job, they got it to the postal service.

I bet you it will show up. Many many times I had forgotten about international packages I had ordered, 2-3 months latter they were in my mailbox.

Sometimes it seems like the various postal services like taking packages on the scenic route... I recently received a package from England which - for reasons I can't even begin to grasp - had been sent via Italy...

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 12-02-2012, 11:01 AM
#13
  • freddy
  • Banned
  • San Diego, California, U.S.A.
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I think Josh and Hans got it just right. I also agree that most vendors I have dealt with have been excellent, especially in the shaving and fountain pen on-line stores. Some of the direct contact I have had with these small vendors is so fantastic that the huge bricks and mortar and on-line stores could learn a lesson or two from them.

Is there anyone here who has had a bad experience shopping with Phil? The guy is incredible. However, he'll be the first to tell you that sometimes, for any number of reasons, including shipping, things go awry. When these vendors give 100% and something still goes wrong that is out of their control, they are still going to get my business.

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 12-02-2012, 11:11 AM
#14
  • freddy
  • Banned
  • San Diego, California, U.S.A.
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(12-02-2012, 10:58 AM)WegianWarrior Wrote:
(12-02-2012, 10:52 AM)beartrap Wrote:
(12-02-2012, 10:09 AM)Johnny Wrote: I bought a brush from a vendor in Portugal (none that support this forum). They shipped the brush and the Portuguese postal service said it was dispatched. What ever that means. The USPS says it is still being dispatched in Portugal and that over a month ago. I figure the brush is setting on the counter of some Portuguese Customs Agent in Lisbon.

It was an inexpensive brush so I have just written it off. The vendor did their job, they got it to the postal service.

I bet you it will show up. Many many times I had forgotten about international packages I had ordered, 2-3 months latter they were in my mailbox.

Sometimes it seems like the various postal services like taking packages on the scenic route... I recently received a package from England which - for reasons I can't even begin to grasp - had been sent via Italy...

It isn't just packages, either. Many years ago, I sent a letter from San Diego to a friend in London, England. After about three weeks, when I hadn't heard back, I called. My friend said he had never received it. That summer, I was to visit him and about a week before I was due to leave he called me to say that the letter had arrived (some four months after I mailed it). He said it went to Manila, the Philippines by mistake. I asked how he knew and he said it was stamped on the back of the envelope. Sure enough, when I arrived at his place, he showed me my letter and envelope and clearly stamped on the back of the envelope was a statement like "Misdirected to Manila." My friend lived in Ilford, Essex, England which is a part of Greater London. How the folks at the post office got Manila, Philippines from Ilford, Essex, England is beyond me. What amused me even more is that the Philippines postal service had a rubber stamp made up for such use. Makes you wonder just how much mail does get misdirected to Manila. Tongue

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 12-02-2012, 09:57 PM
#15
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Josh and Hans, eloquently stated! Trying to show more compassion to others even when mishaps happen can benefit us more than we realize.

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 12-02-2012, 10:21 PM
#16
  • Agravic
  • Emeritus
  • Pennsylvania, USA
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I remind myself that the vendors we deal with are enthusiasts themselves, and are not in business to make 'a fast buck' or be 'deceitful' ... there are easier ways to do this if one wishes to do so.
I recently ordered several Jabonman soaps from Manuel in Spain, who was exceptionally courteous and prompt in his email correspondences. The tracking number he provided stated that the package was posted on November 5. I waited anxiously ... days, weeks, but still no delivery. The package finally arrived at my post office on December 1 ... the delay was presumably credited to US Customs, who decided to open and inspect the 'rogue' package that was labeled 'shaving soaps'. I would have loved to see the expression on their faces when they discovered several jute bags containing metal tins of aromatic soaps! With International shipping, I have learned to err on the side of longer waiting times.

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 12-02-2012, 10:43 PM
#17
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I have a love/hate relationship with the postal service. Most of the time they do their job perfectly fine and I love them for it. .01% of the time something goes screwy and it annoys me. Costs me usually too.

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 12-02-2012, 11:23 PM
#18
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(12-02-2012, 06:19 AM)WegianWarrior Wrote: I have a simple rule I follow online and offline;

- If I have a problem, I tell the person I have a problem with and sort it out.
- If I have a good experience, I tell everybody.

In the end, it generates less friction and less angry people... leaving everyone happy. If - and it hasn't happened yet - I run into a problem with an online shop that can't be fixed by a bit of talk and a bit of patience, well... I guess I would vote with my feet and wallet and take my business elsewhere.

The airing of dirty laundry I see in places just isn't very becoming of gentlemen... YMMV off course Tongue

Well stated. Any issue I've had with vendors in my life I have worked out with the vendor sans one bad eBay experience about 10 years ago. I have a thread in this forum regarding a Priority Mail complaint. I didn't even post that until after I talked to Phil who set out to replace everything damaged. Only after that did I feel it was acceptable to make my post regarding something outside of Phil's control.

The airing of dirty laundry gets on my nerves as there are two sides to every story and working issues out isn't why we have these forums. There are vendors I will no longer deal with due to issues and others love the same vendor. It's not my place or desire to stomp on people or vendors in public.

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 12-17-2012, 03:51 AM
#19
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(12-02-2012, 11:11 AM)freddy Wrote:
(12-02-2012, 10:58 AM)WegianWarrior Wrote:
(12-02-2012, 10:52 AM)beartrap Wrote: I bet you it will show up. Many many times I had forgotten about international packages I had ordered, 2-3 months latter they were in my mailbox.

Sometimes it seems like the various postal services like taking packages on the scenic route... I recently received a package from England which - for reasons I can't even begin to grasp - had been sent via Italy...

It isn't just packages, either. Many years ago, I sent a letter from San Diego to a friend in London, England. After about three weeks, when I hadn't heard back, I called. My friend said he had never received it. That summer, I was to visit him and about a week before I was due to leave he called me to say that the letter had arrived (some four months after I mailed it). He said it went to Manila, the Philippines by mistake. I asked how he knew and he said it was stamped on the back of the envelope. Sure enough, when I arrived at his place, he showed me my letter and envelope and clearly stamped on the back of the envelope was a statement like "Misdirected to Manila." My friend lived in Ilford, Essex, England which is a part of Greater London. How the folks at the post office got Manila, Philippines from Ilford, Essex, England is beyond me. What amused me even more is that the Philippines postal service had a rubber stamp made up for such use. Makes you wonder just how much mail does get misdirected to Manila. Tongue

Once I had a package from the Unites States that was stamped in... Kenya. Confused
Why a package travelling from the USA to Portugal stops at Kenya is totally waaaay beyond me Tongue

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 12-17-2012, 05:18 AM
#20
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Vendors who specialize in shaving goods are few in comparison to the total. I've never had a problem with any of them, but in case I should, the only thing that would worry me would be if they simply stop communicating. That could mean so many things, a great many unrelated to the transaction. What if they or a family member are sick or worse? To rush to a highly negative judgment seems inappropriate. To publicly brand someone as dishonest is very risky. I look at it this way - what if I was the one being held responsible and condemned for faulty mail delivery or was deemed a cheater every time I make a mistake? That would be very unfair, and undeserved. I make so many mistakes, my friends, family and coworkers gracefully overlook them, and in turn, so do I.

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