12-20-2012, 11:53 PM
#1
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I'm still trying to decide on a knot for my new Oscar11 handle. Anyone have experience with a 20mm TGN nylon knot? Talk to me about it please.

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 12-21-2012, 04:12 AM
#2
  • Dave
  • Moderator Emeritus
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It's largely the same knot in the Frank Shaving Synthetic brushes and it's a good one Brian. Makes lather quickly and doesn't feel bad on the face. I'd imagine it would be a decent face latherer.

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 12-21-2012, 09:08 AM
#3
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Here was my use of the new TGN in 20.

http://shavenook.com/thread-restoration-...-synthetic

Since then I got to use it a couple of more times and it worked well on both creams and soaps.

Due to the available depth of the brush handle, this was placed at a 51 mm loft. For a natural knot that would equate to around 49 mm since the fibers on a synthetic are thicker than hairs.

Now the one advantage for face lathering is that you can use circular motions to your hearts content without having to worry about loss of fibers, because they are thicker and stronger than natural hairs.

On these knots, I would place them no lower than around 48 mm to allow for sufficient flexibility for the fibers. That would equate to a 46 mm for a natural hair knot.

Good fortune.

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 12-21-2012, 09:16 AM
#4
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I have a TGN synthetic at 23mm in an Ever Ready 200T. While I am not a fan of synthetic knots overall, I must say I like this knot. Does well for me with soft soaps and creams. I have not tried it with a hard soap as it feels like s soft silvertip which in my experiences do not do so well with hard soaps and my technique.

This is not my pic, but is the picture from the BST thread I bought the brush from.

[Image: attachment.php?aid=6834]

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 12-21-2012, 09:56 AM
#5
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TGN upgraded to Gen 3 synthetic fibers recently. The Gen 3 stuff is very nice indeed.

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 12-21-2012, 01:25 PM
#6
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Thanks guys! A TGN Nylon it is then.

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 12-21-2012, 06:19 PM
#7
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I think you'll be pleased. I was on the H.I.S. pass around and I didn't care for the HIS at all. Way too floppy for me. While I don't think a synthetic can quite compare to a natural brush (no water absorption, a less natural "area" when moving from the backbone part to the tips part (it's basically immediate), I can't imagine selling mine. They make great travel brushes as they dry very fast.

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 12-21-2012, 08:37 PM
#8
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I actually bought 2 knots. One 20mm for a face lathering brush set to 48mm, and a 24mm, to make a larger brush for head lathering. I hope 48mm loft isn't too much for me.

I did consider another badger, but I really wanted something different. I have plenty of boars and badgers. If I have to I can always reknot the Oscar11 handled face lather TGN Nylon brush and go with badger, but I intend to give them a decent try.

If I like them I might even consider the refined STF Muhle brush if it's available in a face lathering size. We'll see. I'm doing this only because I'm curious.

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 12-24-2012, 09:50 PM
#9
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Hmm, got both the 22mm and 24mm syn' TGN knots in today. Very nice feel to them BTW. If these are 3rd Gen and they're up to an improved 4th Gen I can't imagine how nice they are.

I dropped the 22mm into the proper handle and it went in as far as the fibers. The knot base is one size, the hair is another. The "glue bump" extends outwards beyond the base diameter, so I'm going to see what I can do withthe handle to allow me to set the knot in a little deeper. I'd like to get it in a bit more, if I accept what is I'll have 52 mm of loft and I'd really like a bit less. I's like to get it down to 48mm if possible.

Did I mention how nice this synthetic knot is? Biggrin When I opened the package up and showed the wife then let her feel them I told her they were synthetic and she had trouble believing it. Quite surprising how nice they are.

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 12-24-2012, 10:50 PM
#10
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(12-24-2012, 09:50 PM)ShadowsDad Wrote: Hmm, got both the 22mm and 24mm syn' TGN knots in today. Very nice feel to them BTW. If these are 3rd Gen and they're up to an improved 4th Gen I can't imagine how nice they are.

I dropped the 22mm into the proper handle and it went in as far as the fibers. The knot base is one size, the hair is another. The "glue bump" extends outwards beyond the base diameter, so I'm going to see what I can do withthe handle to allow me to set the knot in a little deeper. I'd like to get it in a bit more, if I accept what is I'll have 52 mm of loft and I'd really like a bit less. I's like to get it down to 48mm if possible.

Did I mention how nice this synthetic knot is? Biggrin When I opened the package up and showed the wife then let her feel them I told her they were synthetic and she had trouble believing it. Quite surprising how nice they are.

There is a point I want to bring up, where the glue bump is a detriment to the natural fiber by taking away from effective loft, it actually helps to form the flair of the synthetic since the fibers will obviously not bloom like a natural. You will find out if you sink a synthetic too deep it will just become a series of straight fibers and your brush becomes a stiff mass more like a rope than a brush. So the glue bump becomes your ally and not your enemy. If it is exposed above the handle, it is not an issue, or as much of an issue as it is in natural haired knots.

The H.I.S. brush fibers were the first of the 4th Generation and the Muhles are taking the fibers into more conventional handles which is a great improvement. Yes, that fiber is even better and softer than the ones you have experienced.

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 12-25-2012, 01:04 AM
#11
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(12-24-2012, 09:50 PM)ShadowsDad Wrote: Hmm, got both the 22mm and 24mm syn' TGN knots in today. Very nice feel to them BTW. If these are 3rd Gen and they're up to an improved 4th Gen I can't imagine how nice they are.

I dropped the 22mm into the proper handle and it went in as far as the fibers. The knot base is one size, the hair is another. The "glue bump" extends outwards beyond the base diameter, so I'm going to see what I can do withthe handle to allow me to set the knot in a little deeper. I'd like to get it in a bit more, if I accept what is I'll have 52 mm of loft and I'd really like a bit less. I's like to get it down to 48mm if possible.

Did I mention how nice this synthetic knot is? Biggrin When I opened the package up and showed the wife then let her feel them I told her they were synthetic and she had trouble believing it. Quite surprising how nice they are.

let us know your thoughts on it after you use it. I sent two brushes to Teiste to get reknotted a few weeks ago and I'm still deciding on what knots I want to use.

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 12-25-2012, 09:07 AM
#12
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Brian, the 48mm loft will be fine. i have a four Frank Shaving brushes with a 24/48mm and they are fantastic for face-lathering.
i am awaiting one in 26/48mm! Enjoy the brush.

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 12-25-2012, 10:00 AM
#13
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(12-24-2012, 10:50 PM)GDCarrington Wrote: There is a point I want to bring up, where the glue bump is a detriment to the natural fiber by taking away from effective loft, it actually helps to form the flair of the synthetic since the fibers will obviously not bloom like a natural. You will find out if you sink a synthetic too deep it will just become a series of straight fibers and your brush becomes a stiff mass more like a rope than a brush. So the glue bump becomes your ally and not your enemy. If it is exposed above the handle, it is not an issue, or as much of an issue as it is in natural haired knots.

The glue bump on mine rises well above the handle, and I am VERY satisfied with the results. I would not want it sunk so low the bump is below deck.

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 12-25-2012, 01:16 PM
#14
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Well, I opened up the hole a bit, put a gentle bevel on it to not give up all of the built in bloom even before reading these responses. It just seemed like it was built that way for a reason. The loft is 48-49mm, that's as close as I can come to being accurate with a ruler and my calibrated eyeball. I might push it and use it in the morning. It'll be mostly cured by then (but not the full 24 hours of cure time) and it's not like lathering will place stress on anything. It will still cure even after the first use even if I push it.

Edit: I gave the brush some time to set up in the handle and compared the knot to several other of my softest brushes (dry), my Rooney 3/1 SuperSilvertip and the Omega 599 Silvertip which has little backbone and is soft to boot. The TGN knot is clearly the winner here. All fibers were of the same fantastically soft quality. I gave no hints to the wife as she compared them on her face, I just handed them to her and asked her to tell me which was the softest, and she corroborated my results. The natural hairs had a bit of scritch in comparison. Comparing natural hair to natural hair and no one would say they had scritch, but the synthetic has raised the bar. You have no idea how much that pains me to write that, but the manufacturing process for these fibers is as close as I can deteremine to be 100% accurate in what they wanted to manufacture. If it lathers as well as I've read that it will I may never buy another badger. But my mind is open to performance parameters and I'm not going to let other reviews sway me. I'm far too curmudgeonly for that. I certainly never expected to write what I have so far though and this isn't even a review. I expected "nylon" fibers, and this is anything other than what I expected.

I may need to come out of my "contented" zone and explore the Muhle synthetic brush(es). We'll see.

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 12-27-2012, 04:28 PM
#15
  • mikeperry
  • Senior Member
  • St Louis via the UK
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Hi Brian

Do you have a photo or two to share of the completed brush?

Take care, Mike

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 12-27-2012, 08:36 PM
#16
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(12-27-2012, 04:28 PM)mikeperry Wrote: Hi Brian

Do you have a photo or two to share of the completed brush?

Take care, Mike

Not really Mike. I'm not happy with the job I did on installation. I had epoxy get drawn up the fibers. At least that's what I think happened. Ultimately though I screwed it up. It works fine, just not pretty enough for pics.

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 12-27-2012, 08:54 PM
#17
  • freddy
  • Senior Member
  • San Diego, California, U.S.A.
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Brian, I have an old Body Shop synthetic and a new Frank Shaving Fiber and the difference, as you've discovered, is remarkable. Rather than never getting another boar or badger, what you may find is that it just opens up another option, depending on your shaving mood of the moment.

Enjoy those synthetics and let us know where they stand in comparison to your various natural hair brushes.

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 12-27-2012, 09:12 PM
#18
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I've always been a fan of the synthetics...starting with a Parker and then moving up to a HIS and Franks. I like the HIS fibers best, but like the stiffness of the fibers on the Franks. I am now curious about these TGN knots.

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 12-28-2012, 10:41 AM
#19
  • mikeperry
  • Senior Member
  • St Louis via the UK
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(12-27-2012, 08:36 PM)ShadowsDad Wrote: Not really Mike. I'm not happy with the job I did on installation. I had epoxy get drawn up the fibers. At least that's what I think happened. Ultimately though I screwed it up. It works fine, just not pretty enough for pics.

Hi Brian

No worries, as I totally understand where you're coming from...

Every time Dave posts a photo of the Ever-Ready F40 restore I did for him I cringe a little bit inside. Why?

Due to the shape of the knot hole in that shaving brush (once you get past the top opening the internal hole opens to a widen diameter) and me being me, I really wanted to make sure I packed the knot hole as best I could with epoxy (didn't want voids in there), which in turn resulted in a little more squeeze out than I was expecting.

End result meant I'd accomplished packing the knot hole well, but I was left with more epoxy clean up than is desirable. At the time (while the epoxy was still workable) I thought I had done a (very) good job at cleaning up the squeeze out, but now that the brush is with Dave and the epoxy has "fully" cured, I cringe a little bit each time I see a photo of the shaving brush eg look here, see the thin white layer running around the base of the knot as it enters the handle, makes me Sad every time I see it...

Take care, Mike

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 12-28-2012, 01:42 PM
#20
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Mike, Yes we see it every time because we know it's there and we were trying for perfection. If you hadn't pointed it out to me I probably never would have seen it.

It's like that with things I build. I see all the imperfections every time, but no one else does. Or few do anyway. And there are always imperfections.

Now if I could just slow down my typing (so that my mind doesn't outrace my fingers) and proofread better the imperfections wouldn't be so on display...

Freddy, I can do that now. I was impressed with the softness when dry. The wife was amazed to hear that it was synthetic. My softest natural fiber brush is an Omega 599 silvertip, but while soft it also has very little backbone. This brush is soft with backbone. Not like a boar, just like an almost perfect badger.

I've been lathering from pucks since I began using the brush a few days ago. It's simply superb. It acts differently with water than either a boar or badger. It holds more than I would like, but that just means I need to learn how to use it, and I'm getting it down. A better shake off (more of a "fling") does the job. When face lathering the tips are "gel like", just incredibly soft. I've never felt that before even with a super silvertip. It's just a very very nice knot. I can't imagine anyone complaining about softness regarding this brush and I can't imagine it not handling any soap, croap, or cream.

I have a 24mm knot, but it turns out that the handle I was going to put it in simply isn't going to work. I intend to maximize the loft for the few months of the year that I can head shave. If anything, it might be too soft for that for me. I may need to get a high lofted Boar. But time will tell on that.

I'm extremely impressed with this knot. I need to live with it some more though. It works great, and it will always have a place in my rotation, but I might actually prefer a little more scritch than this knot allows. But for someone wanting gel like tips, this won't disappoint. Unlike natural fiber, each of these fibers is made to be soft, there are no fibers not meeting the specification. With natural, the fibers can be mixed and one can be stiffer lending scritch to a brush.

Would I do it again? In a heartbeat! I don't need another synthetic, but I might just make another if TGN has a smaller knot. I might also try to find a Muhle in a size that I can live with. And I thought I was content.

Edit: 12/30/12

One problem I've been having is what I think is a too wet brush going into my face lathering, so today I decided to not wet much of the brush at all before lathering, just the tips. I shook it off (more of a flinging motion) and proceeded to lather. No problem, it acted dry as I expected, so I dipped the tips into the pool of water and picked up FAR more water than I expected. Repeated that a number of times and unless I made sure to touch just the very tip ends into the water I got much more water than I wanted each time. It wasn't better or worse than natural fibers, just different. Neither badger or boar would have acted like the water magnet this brush did.

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