01-04-2013, 09:27 AM
#1
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I was of the impression that only very rough badgers like D01 2-Band needed to break in, but softer badgers performed almost maxed out performance wise from first shave......

Used my Thäter 4125/3 Bulb 2-Band for the first time today, this sort of soft brush is not supposed to perform better over time, is it ?

I was not overly impressed for a $200 brush to be quite honest......

I think Thäter may be too luxurious in feel, just like a Kent BK8 is......

Not that my Thäter 4125/3 2-Bander in Bulb performed poorly, not in any way - but I expect HIGH QUALITY FEEL AND PERFORMANCE from a $200 brush and this did not deliver at first use.

Normally only very tough 2-Banders like Shavemac D01 2-Band need a break in period, but an already velvet soft brush like this Thäter surely should perform at near perfect on first shave right ?

I'd rate it 7/10 in performance, of course this is compared to my other high end brushe - so I'm not easily impressed of course Tongue

It's the black handles guy in the pic, 10 hours after its maiden shave Cool

[Image: abypaqys.jpg]

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 01-04-2013, 09:40 AM
#2
  • Teiste
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  • Salt Lake City,UT
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While I havent tried so many Thaters in the past , (two of them being silvertip) , I can tell you that is my experience , that even a super soft silvertip brush , needs like 3 or 4 uses to be fully ready , like my old silvertip Kent's , Vie Long , shavemac etc.
Use it a couple times more and see if performs better : I think it will.

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 01-04-2013, 09:59 AM
#3
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What was wrong with it?

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 01-04-2013, 10:26 AM
#4
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Claus, even Thäter brushes have a break in period, but if you don't like the luxurious feel of it now, you probably won't ever like it. Thäter brushes (three band especially) usually offer tips that provide zero scrubbing sensation, just cloud like bliss. If feedback from the tips is what you are after, I am afraid Thäter is not your brush.

I hope you grow to enjoy it more, as they are wonderful shaving brushes!

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 01-04-2013, 10:34 AM
#5
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(01-04-2013, 09:40 AM)Teiste Wrote: While I havent tried so many Thaters in the past , (two of them being silvertip) , I can tell you that is my experience , that even a super soft silvertip brush , needs like 3 or 4 uses to be fully ready , like my old silvertip Kent's , Vie Long , shavemac etc.
Use it a couple times more and see if performs better : I think it will.

I will Teiste, it's just that the brushes you see in my Top 5 in my signature all performed to their max from first shave Smile

(01-04-2013, 09:59 AM)SteelTown Wrote: What was wrong with it?

It was not holding on to the water as well as the best brushes in my collection, so it dropped some water during the shave, and I only apply very very little to the tips of the brush after having soaked it for 2-3 minutes and shaken it 3-4 ties before my shave.

I can dip my preferred brushes in just drops of water during the shave and they will still hold on to the water.

Also it felt almost too floppy, luxurious and soft - almost Kent BK8 like. I know Thäters are known for being soft and luxurious, and maybe that's just not for me, but this is a pretty dense 2-Bander - I expect better backbone from a $200 bulb brush with a 28 mm knot.

I own 6 Thäters, so I have tested a couple of them in different knot sizes and knot shapes, and both 3-Band and 2-Band.

I may be turning into a brush snob, but that is just what happens when you buy a lot of expensive brushes - you expect and get disappointed when they don't perform up to your expectations Smile

Don't get me wrong - this is a luxurious $200 brush, but it behaves more like a 3-Band, not a 2-Bander.......
I also own 2 Thäter 3-Band, and I KNOW they will be soft and Kent like.
But expected more from their 2-Band line to be honest.

It's all a YMMV and I know this brush would be badger heaven for maybe 50% of the population of wet shavers or even 75% or more Wink

I just slowly am finding out my preferences in a brush - like Ben, I think I prefer 2012 batch Manchurian from Simpson but also the 2012 batch of 2-Band from Simpson, old stock Finest from both Morris & Forndran as well as from Rooney and then Semogue 2-Band European and also surprisngly Thiers Issard extra densely packed 3-Band hair.

Shavemac D01 3-Band and D01 2-Band is also very well performing - I will give this brush 4-5 uses before I decide if it's a keeper or not.

I read often that people think that badger brushes don't need a break in - I know for a fact that Shavemac D01 2-Band & D01 3-Band need a break in to perform better and also Semogue 2-Band as well as Thiers Issard 3-Super Extra Dense.

Maybe also the softer badger brushes benefit from breaking in, and will not perform to their best level before 4-5 shaves........

(01-04-2013, 10:26 AM)cessnabird Wrote: Claus, even Thäter brushes have a break in period, but if you don't like the luxurious feel of it now, you probably won't ever like it. Thäter brushes (three band especially) usually offer tips that provide zero scrubbing sensation, just cloud like bliss. If feedback from the tips is what you are after, I am afraid Thäter is not your brush.

I hope you grow to enjoy it more, as they are wonderful shaving brushes!

I think you are right, Sir Smile

I need more patience, but even with that in mind, I think Thäters are too velvet cloud soft for my face lathering preferences. I need more backbone and more feel.
The Thäter gave me very litte feedback and was actually close to acting floppy.
It did not create the quality of lather I expected from such an expensive brush to be honest.

I will give it 4 more shaves and update this thread in 3-4 weeks time or so Smile

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 01-04-2013, 10:43 AM
#6
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I really believe that every brush benefits from being used, sometimes for even longer than 3-4 shaves - and yes, even the softer badger ones. Every single badger brush I owned (from pure to silvertip) increased their performance with use - even when they perform excellent just out-of-the box.

Saying that, I have a Thäter 3-band silvertip, but I never tried a Thäter 2-band, so I cannot help you with this specific issue...

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 01-04-2013, 10:58 AM
#7
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Good luck Claus, and I look forward to your opinions after a few more shaves with it.

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 01-04-2013, 11:42 AM
#8
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Thanks for the explanation Claus. I am not a 2-band fan and do not have a lot of experience with them. I am really liking the Thater 3-band though. I do have to say, I think that Silvertip across all brands has decreased in quality over the years. Not a huge amount but enough to be detectable. As always YMMV.

Concerning break-in. All brushes benefit. The knot "loosens" a bit and flow improves. On Silvertips I notice that tips become a little softer, when dry, after a few uses etc.

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 01-04-2013, 04:38 PM
#9
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(01-04-2013, 10:43 AM)oversaturn Wrote: I really believe that every brush benefits from being used, sometimes for even longer than 3-4 shaves - and yes, even the softer badger ones. Every single badger brush I owned (from pure to silvertip) increased their performance with use - even when they perform excellent just out-of-the box.

Saying that, I have a Thäter 3-band silvertip, but I never tried a Thäter 2-band, so I cannot help you with this specific issue...

Interesting debate - I think that especially the harder brushes will benefit from breaking in, but I thought the softer badgers performed pretty much at their best from first shave.
So this is interestng information, and makes sense.

I will see if it improves over the course of my next 4-5-6 shaves with it.

(01-04-2013, 10:58 AM)cessnabird Wrote: Good luck Claus, and I look forward to your opinions after a few more shaves with it.

Will report back.

(01-04-2013, 11:42 AM)SteelTown Wrote: Thanks for the explanation Claus. I am not a 2-band fan and do not have a lot of experience with them. I am really liking the Thater 3-band though. I do have to say, I think that Silvertip across all brands has decreased in quality over the years. Not a huge amount but enough to be detectable. As always YMMV.

Concerning break-in. All brushes benefit. The knot "loosens" a bit and flow improves. On Silvertips I notice that tips become a little softer, when dry, after a few uses etc.

Interesting reading Smile
Will report back after 4-5-6 shaves with it and tell if I feel any difference. Unless I have sold it, since even for a bulb shaped knot, the 28 mm 2-Band blooms a bit more than I would have expected and honestly like. I could just barely get it into my pot of Art Of Shaving Sandalwood cream and that pot is not small in diameter/width.
I don't like if the brush hairs will bend on to outisde of the pot, when you dip your brush in the pot - just not healthy for a brush in the long run.......and thought the bulby 2-band shape would provide better precision for face latherning that it did.....

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 01-04-2013, 05:45 PM
#10
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(01-04-2013, 04:38 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: .... I could just barely get it into my pot of Art Of Shaving Sandalwood cream and that pot is not small in diameter/width.
.....

Holy smokes that is a lot of bloom

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 01-04-2013, 05:53 PM
#11
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I've never heard of a soft brush getting more backbone or feeling firmer. Usually it's the opposite, brushes get softer.

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 01-04-2013, 06:03 PM
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(01-04-2013, 05:45 PM)SteelTown Wrote:
(01-04-2013, 04:38 PM)CHSeifert Wrote: .... I could just barely get it into my pot of Art Of Shaving Sandalwood cream and that pot is not small in diameter/width.
.....

Holy smokes that is a lot of bloom

I mean without the outer hair bending down on to the outside of the pot - 98% of the brush went into the pot with no problems.

I just don't like huge brushes because firstly I sacrifice control when face lathering around my ears and under my nose and secondly I dislike them not being able to dip into a regular sized pot of shaving cream without bending some of the outer hairs in the knot. Thirdly they often tend to be lather hogs Biggrin

(01-04-2013, 05:53 PM)insomniac Wrote: I've never heard of a soft brush getting more backbone or feeling firmer. Usually it's the opposite, brushes get softer.

You're probably right - I suspect this brush will never be a top 10 brush for me, and at $200 is should have been to live up to my expectations.......

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