01-13-2013, 04:53 PM
#1
  • matloffm
  • Senior Member
  • Culver City, CA
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I just bought a knot and handle from TGN. I have not had great results with epoxy in the past. What other means work to glue the knot into the handle? Has anyone tried clear waterproof caulk?

Anyone use something other than slow setting epoxy with good results?

Thanks,
Marc

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 01-13-2013, 05:02 PM
#2
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I just used Ace Hardware brand fast setting epoxy last night on a few brushes. I just mixed, spread a thin amount at the base of the "hole" in the handle, and set the knots. They were shave ready in 2 hrs. It was fast, clean and easy.

I used the little plastic mixer that comes with the kit to apply the epoxy. All you need is a very thin application to get the job done.

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 01-13-2013, 05:09 PM
#3
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One good glue that I use is called PL400 it is used for gluing down subfloor in construction its waterproof and it will never break down It holds stuff like concrete . It can be found at Homedepot or any other construction store.

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 01-13-2013, 06:34 PM
#4
  • daccpa
  • Weber fanboy
  • Middle Tennessee
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I use HardMan 5 minute epoxy, same stuff that I use for making golf clubs. Never lost a clubhead or a badger knot.

[Image: 04001.gif]

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 01-13-2013, 06:48 PM
#5
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(01-13-2013, 04:53 PM)matloffm Wrote: I just bought a knot and handle from TGN. I have not had great results with epoxy in the past. What other means work to glue the knot into the handle? Has anyone tried clear waterproof caulk?

Anyone use something other than slow setting epoxy with good results?

Thanks,
Marc

What is the issue you have with epoxy?

Any waterproof glue *should* work of course. Try looking at marine glues.

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 01-13-2013, 08:12 PM
#6
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I use Permatex Clear RTV Silicone... wonderful stuff!!

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 01-14-2013, 04:25 PM
#7
  • matloffm
  • Senior Member
  • Culver City, CA
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Over the years, I have used many different brands of epoxy. All would not stick to plastic or I got a fragile, brittle bond that took no punishment at all. I just got tired of it and moved on to other adhesives. As the brush handle is plastic and the bond will be exposed to warm water, I wanted to see what others were using instead of epoxy.

I appreciate all the responses. Thanks, guys.

(01-13-2013, 06:48 PM)asharperrazor Wrote:
(01-13-2013, 04:53 PM)matloffm Wrote: I just bought a knot and handle from TGN. I have not had great results with epoxy in the past. What other means work to glue the knot into the handle? Has anyone tried clear waterproof caulk?

Anyone use something other than slow setting epoxy with good results?

Thanks,
Marc

What is the issue you have with epoxy?

Any waterproof glue *should* work of course. Try looking at marine glues.

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 01-15-2013, 03:13 PM
#8
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Man, epoxy is like my favorite thing in the world (as far as adhesives go, anyway). I can't imagine it ever NOT working for a brush and I've done about 6-7 now. Among other benefits, most (all?) epoxy is impervious to water. Also, you can get stuff that cures to full strength in 1 hour and by nature it doesn't need air to cure (like silicon does). Good luck.

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 01-15-2013, 03:50 PM
#9
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Marc,
I've set a bunch of knots with marine 2 part epoxy and no problem, but here's an alternate approach I've been using that's meant to be temporary, but has lasted for months so far. It was suggested to me originally by Oscar11 (credit needs to go where it's due).

I use doublesided mounting tape to set the knots. When I need to adjust the loft inside the brush, I use whatever coin is the best fit (one of my 30mm handles has at least 4, maybe 6, dollars Canadian in Loonies beneath the knot) for my handle. I have at least three brushes mounted in this for the last 4 or 5 months and they have not budged. This method allows you to play with the loft. If you don't like it, then you should be able to just pull it back out. Here's a link to the tape I used:

http://www.amazon.com/3M-Scotch-Exterior...pg__header

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 01-15-2013, 04:00 PM
#10
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Actually, if you just use pennies, the epoxy will fill in the gap. So, you don't have to use more expensive currency.

I believe this is also cheaper than buying steel washers too. Not nylon washers, but the copper & zinc alloy is certainly heavier than nylon.

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 01-15-2013, 04:02 PM
#11
  • vferdman
  • Artisan
  • Western Massachusetts
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I've used blue RTV before, but I certainly prefer epoxy. I have never had bad results with epoxy and I've been using it for at least 20 years. ABS plastic is not very good at holding any kind of glue, but if you rough it up it will work. Certain epoxies are specially designed to work on plastics. They are sometimes called cold/plastic weld compounds. I don;t think you need that for a brush. I have done six brushes with epoxy and one with blue RTV. All are holding up real well. One of the six brushes had a wooden handle, the other five were plastic including Bakelite, resin, regular old plastic. All were a resounding success. I used long curing epoxy, five minute epoxy, one minute epoxy, JB-Weld (metalized epoxy), you name it. I now have a large amount of 5 minute epoxy that I am working through and I like it a lot. It comes in two squeeze bottles instead of those syringes that always make a mess. If you prep your surfaces and use the epoxy properly it should make a bond between that knot and the handle that will likely outlive us all.

Having said that I found RTV to be very well suited to the task of brush knot setting. You can use that if you'd rather.

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 01-15-2013, 04:41 PM
#12
  • blzrfn
  • Butterscotch Bandit
  • Vancouver USA
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I think the RTV might be a good way to go for a first time restorer as it would be the easiest to remove if a mistake was made or a change in loft desired. Am I correct in my thinking here?

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 01-15-2013, 05:47 PM
#13
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I use only 2-part epoxy, Devcon 5 min - nothing else!

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 01-15-2013, 08:40 PM
#14
  • vferdman
  • Artisan
  • Western Massachusetts
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(01-15-2013, 04:41 PM)blzrfn Wrote: I think the RTV might be a good way to go for a first time restorer as it would be the easiest to remove if a mistake was made or a change in loft desired. Am I correct in my thinking here?

RTV is real tough when set, but I suppose it would be easier than epoxy once that's set. I have never experienced anything but a super tough bond with epoxy. It's pretty much forever, especially in a brush where there is so much surface area.

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 01-15-2013, 10:02 PM
#15
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(01-15-2013, 04:41 PM)blzrfn Wrote: I think the RTV might be a good way to go for a first time restorer as it would be the easiest to remove if a mistake was made or a change in loft desired. Am I correct in my thinking here?

There's no such thing as a mistake. Just a brush that someone else on the board's wants. Biggrin

For that task, the best thing I've heard discussed is double stick tape.

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 01-15-2013, 11:00 PM
#16
  • blzrfn
  • Butterscotch Bandit
  • Vancouver USA
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(01-15-2013, 10:02 PM)asharperrazor Wrote:
(01-15-2013, 04:41 PM)blzrfn Wrote: I think the RTV might be a good way to go for a first time restorer as it would be the easiest to remove if a mistake was made or a change in loft desired. Am I correct in my thinking here?

There's no such thing as a mistake. Just a brush that someone else on the board's wants. Biggrin

For that task, the best thing I've heard discussed is double stick tape.

Thanks for the tip. I have a brush that will receive a transplant in the near future and I am concerned about making a mistake on the first try. Now I just need to find a few hours of "down time"

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 01-16-2013, 04:46 AM
#17
  • vferdman
  • Artisan
  • Western Massachusetts
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(01-15-2013, 10:02 PM)asharperrazor Wrote: There's no such thing as a mistake. Just a brush that someone else on the board's wants. Biggrin

For that task, the best thing I've heard discussed is double stick tape.

Amen for that, Lee. Unless there is something horribly wrong like the knot is obviously crooked there is no such thing as a mistake, only a brush you didn't mean to make. Even with a crooked knot it may turn out to be a good user. May be the best brush ever, even. I find brushes are very individual and each one comes out a little different and has a personality, which makes them a lot of fun to make and use. Also, even the badger knots will change over the initial break in period. Two band finest knots I've used changed way more than I expected after having experience with only silvertip badger. Two band has traces of boar personality to it as far as break in. It does it much faster, but still, not instantly like silvertip. For me they take a dozen shaves or so to stop changing and settle into their own. So, even if you make a "mistake", live with the brush and see where it ends up after a few uses. You may love it. This is especially true for two band finest knots. Omega boar knots I used are predetermined to be awesome as Omega sets them into plastic buckets and all you have to do is glue the bucket into the handle. The loft is set at the factory and Omega knows what they are doing with their boar knots.

As far as the original topic of glue, I stand by what I said before. The best thing I've used for brushes is epoxy. Right now I have a big amount of Loctite 5 minute epoxy (I bought 8oz of it in two 4oz bottles instead of one of those syringes, which clog up, make a mess and are not easy to measure out exact amounts from), but I have used JB-Weld before as well as 1 minute epoxy, 2 hour epoxy. I also used RTV and that brush is holding up just fine.

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 01-17-2013, 02:10 PM
#18
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This may sound nutty, but has anyone tried cyanoacrylate? A common well known brand would be Super Glue. I've been using epoxy myself, but CA has always intrigued me.

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 01-17-2013, 02:38 PM
#19
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(01-17-2013, 02:10 PM)ShadowsDad Wrote: This may sound nutty, but has anyone tried cyanoacrylate? A common well known brand would be Super Glue. I've been using epoxy myself, but CA has always intrigued me.

No, but I'd be afraid of the CA not being strong enough. Could be unfounded of course.

I've always imagined that it would be possible to just pull off a knot bonded with CA.

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 01-17-2013, 03:28 PM
#20
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(01-17-2013, 02:38 PM)asharperrazor Wrote: No, but I'd be afraid of the CA not being strong enough. Could be unfounded of course.

I've always imagined that it would be possible to just pull off a knot bonded with CA.

Yes, that's why I haven't tried it also. I think the fit would need to be really close too. Epoxy allows for quite a bit of slop. But I had to ask. Every time I mix epoxy I wonder about CA.

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